From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: `xterm-mouse-mode' has a bogus Custom group Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:29:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <200504101529.j3AFTbJ29088@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <200504020351.j323ppS16391@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <16974.11752.332998.125628@farnswood.snap.net.nz> <200504021346.j32Dk3e19471@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <16978.12100.857894.861739@farnswood.snap.net.nz> <200504060000.j3600bm15264@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <16979.20638.871209.55398@farnswood.snap.net.nz> <200504070045.j370j0J27252@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <16981.58243.428189.615765@farnswood.snap.net.nz> <200504081605.j38G5ia15320@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <16982.64939.154130.463783@farnswood.snap.net.nz> <200504090406.j3946HQ22712@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <01c53d89$Blat.v2.4$96f0bb20@zahav.net.il> <200504101318.j3ADID528159@raven.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1113146990 3259 80.91.229.2 (10 Apr 2005 15:29:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:29:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eliz@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 10 17:29:47 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DKeNO-0008Mw-5A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 17:29:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DKdxK-0004co-0q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:02:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DKdx7-0004cF-S3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:02:22 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DKdx5-0004bK-Cm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:02:19 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DKdx4-0004b1-Qb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:02:18 -0400 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DKeQK-0004tV-C9; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:32:32 -0400 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3AFV89N008995; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:31:09 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id j3AFTbJ29088; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:29:37 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:37:39 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:35837 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:35837 Stefan Monnier wrote: There are other ways to avoid this duplication. See patch below. Stefan --- startup.el 08 avr 2005 10:38:07 -0400 1.344 +++ startup.el 10 avr 2005 10:35:33 -0400 @@ -737,7 +737,8 @@ emacs-quick-startup (not (display-graphic-p)) (not (fboundp 'x-show-tip))) - (tooltip-mode 1)) + (tooltip-mode 1) + (put 'tooltip-mode 'standard-value '(t))) If I remember (and understood) correctly, Richard rejected this kind of solution when we first discussed this problem. It gives at least two problems I am aware of: 1. Loading tooltip again will set the standard value to nil again. 2. Selecting "Show initial Lisp expression" in a Custom buffer will not show the correct expression. This expression is useful if you want to customize variables whose default depends on a bunch of stuff, because looking at that expression will ensure that you are aware of all aspects of the problem. There may very well be other problems. Custom just assumes that the standard value is the expression given in the defcustom. It certainly would simplify things if we could simply set the standard values of all 20+ remaining options in the `emacs -q M-x customize-rogue' buffer to the actual values they have just before the init files are read in startup.el, as Lennart Borgman proposed (if I remember correctly). But Richard rejected that and, as pointed out above, there are some problems with that approach. Sincerely, Luc.