From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: file-name-shadow-mode Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 23:18:12 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <200503180518.j2I5ICV19015@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <200503180435.j2I4Z2R18621@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <87is3p5zp2.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1111123632 6167 80.91.229.2 (18 Mar 2005 05:27:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 05:27:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: snogglethorpe@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, miles@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 18 06:27:11 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DCA0p-0000sg-6Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 06:27:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DCAHF-0002Dh-7K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 00:44:05 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DCAGN-0001nx-EV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 00:43:11 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DCAGG-0001kO-RW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 00:43:06 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DCAGG-0001gS-Fa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 00:43:04 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DC9sf-000562-PL; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 00:18:42 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j2I5Ie9N013749; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 23:18:40 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id j2I5ICV19015; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 23:18:12 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca In-reply-to: <87is3p5zp2.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 17 Mar 2005 23:47:55 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:34703 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:34703 >>From my previous message: I personally very much believe it is a bad idea. _However_ it is the _general_ default :initialize function (`custom-initialize-reset') that has this problem and _not_ `custom-initialize-set' (note the missing `re'). Actually, I was confused here: `custom-initialize-set' does have a side effect when loading the file, but, unlike the very problematic default `custom-initialize-reset' it will not override user customizations. (These are the two problems I confused.) Setting :init-value non-nil for a minor-mode already has a side effect and a pretty confusing one, since the variable and the function are now out of sync. Unless the minor mode requires no :set function, in which case the minor mode is enabled and thus there is a side effect. It seems only appropriate for pre-loaded files and I propose to make the file in question pre-loaded. I think it's better to keep the :init-value at nil, If the real default value is t, then the :init-value _needs_ to be t, for reasons discussed earlier. Sincerely, Luc.