From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Customize buttons that change user's custom fileshouldaskforconfirmation Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:28:40 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <200502190128.j1J1SeW23731@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <00e301c509c1$9c761690$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <200502152320.j1FNKd310641@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200502172257.j1HMvJN10856@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200502181412.j1IECkj14736@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200502182259.j1IMx6g23511@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200502182329.j1INTud23572@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <02e501c51613$f44724a0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1108776903 17794 80.91.229.2 (19 Feb 2005 01:35:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 01:35:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, storm@cua.dk Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 19 02:35:02 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D2JWH-0007LT-PV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2005 02:34:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D2Jmj-0007qJ-G5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:51:53 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1D2Jlg-0007K0-4E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:50:48 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1D2Jlb-0007I3-G5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:50:43 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1D2Jla-0007GG-Mi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:50:42 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1D2JSF-0001gG-MM; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:30:43 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j1J1Ua9N003197; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:30:37 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id j1J1SeW23731; Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:28:40 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se In-reply-to: <02e501c51613$f44724a0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> (lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:33616 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:33616 I lost the CC's im my original reply to Lennart: Lennart Borgman wrote: I agree with your points, but is not this the case with most options dialoges? I myself have often found that I have lost track of what I am doing in those dialoges in other applications. To be sure to avoid trouble I then hit Cancel and start it over again. You mean that each time I have to set an option in Custom, I would have to first enter a key sequence or hit a button in a header line to cancel all previous edits, then I set my value as I do now, then I hit another key sequence or click another button in the header line to save it? This does not appear to be a simplification of the current situation to me. I believe it would be very easy to occasionally forget the first step. How are you going to reset the value to standard, with the new design? One definitely wants to reset a single option to standard, not everything in the buffer. Being able to easily set an option back to standard is important to everybody, but especially to novices. It seem that you will still need the individual State buttons, even with the new design. It all looks like a completely unnecessary complication of things. People are inevitably going to give up on the first step in the tedious three step sequence and, inevitably, they are going to sooner or later get burned by that. If one really would want to get rid of the State buttons (which the new design can not do), one could replace the individual State buttons with individual rows of four buttons: SAVE || RESET TO SAVED || RESET TO STANDARD || ADVANCED where ADVANCED would contain the remainder of the current options listed in State, that is, ADVANCED would still work like the current STATE, but can be ignored unless needed. RESET TO SAVED and RESET TO STANDARD are an important rescue tool if you messed up. The only argument I have yet seen against single option buttons is that people are not used to it. It does not take a gigantic mental effort to get used to it, and it makes things a lot simpler and a lot less error prone. If Custom is hard to understand for other reasons, we could worry about those. But to me, it seems ridiculous to claim that single option buttons are a difficult to grasp concept. Sincerely, Luc.