From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changed outside --> set, in Customize UI Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 19:38:54 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <200502090138.j191csE18773@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1107913663 21003 80.91.229.2 (9 Feb 2005 01:47:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 01:47:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 09 02:47:43 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Cygvg-0001Fp-5b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 09 Feb 2005 02:46:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CyhA7-0006NK-8W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2005 21:01:03 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Cyh8R-0005ty-QE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2005 20:59:20 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Cyh8F-0005mI-2t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2005 20:59:08 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Cyh8E-0005kQ-6y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2005 20:59:06 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cygq9-0000Xx-9B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2005 20:40:25 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j191eO9N026721; Tue, 8 Feb 2005 19:40:24 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id j191csE18773; Tue, 8 Feb 2005 19:38:54 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: drew.adams@oracle.com In-reply-to: X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:33107 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:33107 Drew Adams wrote: Do you mean that if all the bugs are fixed you will no longer prefer "outside" + "inside", that you will prefer just "changed" (set)? I said that this would depend on the implementation details. If so, then there is no need (for you) for a user preference here. If not, then why would this be limited to 1-2 releases? It _might_ be limited to two releases, depending on the implementation details. To me, that is sufficient reason not to implement an option right now. I meant arguments about the desirability in the UI of "outside" + "inside" vs just changed". I haven't seen those arguments. >>From my previous message: I believe that it is possible that we might still need "Set outside Custom" after fixing the hooks-listvars bugs. If you have set an option in your .emacs ten years ago, you need some reminder that you actually set it in your .emacs, or you might have forgotten it. Referring to something set in .emacs as "Set for the current" session would be very confusing because things set in .emacs outside and inside the `custom-set-variables' form are set in the same session. I believe that even after any reimplementation, a change made in .emacs should definitely never be equated with something "Set for the current session". It is just as permanent as something set in the custom-set-variables form. If the "Set outside Custom" would be replaced by something, it would be by a statement that the part _controlled by Custom_ is at standard setting. At least that would be the case for hooks and similar list-vars. For other options, we still may need the "Set outside Custom", depending on what we do with them. Sincerely, Luc.