From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changed outside --> set, in Customize UI Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 21:15:06 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <200502080315.j183F6V07652@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1107832626 28182 80.91.229.2 (8 Feb 2005 03:17:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 03:17:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 08 04:17:06 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CyLs4-00020o-FJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Feb 2005 04:17:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CyM6J-0004Ge-GJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 22:31:43 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1CyM6A-0004GY-Bv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 22:31:34 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1CyM68-0004Ft-Qz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 22:31:34 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1CyM68-0004FV-G8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 22:31:32 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CyLre-0007oT-W0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Feb 2005 22:16:35 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j183GY9N020275; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 21:16:34 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id j183F6V07652; Mon, 7 Feb 2005 21:15:06 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: drew.adams@oracle.com In-reply-to: X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:33069 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:33069 Drew Adams wrote: How about an argument justifying the distinction, to stave off Occam and his nasty razor? I gave several arguments. The fact that you do not understand certain arguments, or do not agree with them, does not mean that no arguments were given. so, yes, the bugs need to be fixed. But we can not hurry and try to fix all of them for 22, because that would nearly guarantee that we would be introducing more bugs than we would fix. At a minimum, this preference could, well, itself be treated as a user preference, that is, a user option. I do not believe that it would make sense to introduce an option for one single release (or *maybe* two should 23 be released very soon after 22). After we change the Custom interface to get rid of the various bugs I described, the user will probably not be able any more to even _try_ to undo an `add-hook' in his .emacs through Custom (which would not work anyway). He would see the added hook in the Custom buffer but it would appear as being "untouchable". He would have to remove the `add-hook' from his .emacs. That is the only way that works anyway. The _illusion_ of being able to do it from the Custom buffer would no longer be there. We might actually decide to do this not just for hooks and list-vars, but for _all_ options. If set in .emacs, make it appear "untouchable". If the user really wants to set it through Custom instead, he can first erase the .emacs customization. That is the only solid way to proceed. Even if the `custom-set-variables' form occurs _after_ the setq and the setq thus _gets_ overridden, that setq is bound to sooner or later confuse the user. _Not_ for 22, however. *Much* too late in the game. Sincerely, Luc.