* Re: Some xterm-256color face colors too bright? [not found] <i56u0oxeogg.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> @ 2005-01-31 19:25 ` Eli Zaretskii 2005-01-31 20:22 ` Luc Teirlinck [not found] ` <i56oef48pr2.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2005-01-31 19:25 UTC (permalink / raw Cc: emacs-devel > From: stktrc <stktrc@yahoo.com> > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:07:59 +0200 > > The default colors of some faces become very bright, bordering on > too bright to be readable, when using an xterm-256color terminal > with light background (correctly detect in frame-background-mode). > Such faces are for example font-lock-string-face and > compilation-warning-face. If you type "M-x customize-face RET font-lock-string-face RET", what color name do you see in the Custom buffer? The default color for that face on light-background displays with more than 88 colors is "RosyBrown". I cannot see how this could be so bright as to annoy you. Could it be that the background color is actually the problem (Emacs doesn't touch the background color in a non-windowed session, it uses the color that it found)? You might also start a windowed Emacs session with a light background and compare the colors for that face in the two sessions, both for background and foreground colors. If you do that, what do you see? > I guess that this is not related to the individual face selections, > but rather to the algorithm by which colors are mapped onto XTerms > colors. Any hints on which parts of Emacs to look in to tune this? The code that does it is in lisp/term/xterm.el. But I don't think that code is to blame: all it does is register the 256 colors with their RGB values, which cannot possibly cause such problems. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Some xterm-256color face colors too bright? 2005-01-31 19:25 ` Some xterm-256color face colors too bright? Eli Zaretskii @ 2005-01-31 20:22 ` Luc Teirlinck 2005-02-01 4:36 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <i56oef48pr2.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> 1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Luc Teirlinck @ 2005-01-31 20:22 UTC (permalink / raw Cc: stktrc, emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii wrote: I cannot see how this could be so bright as to annoy you. How bright a given color looks to a given person can vary _widely_ from person to person. It of course also depends on the monitor, as well a a variety of other factors. Sincerely, Luc. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Some xterm-256color face colors too bright? 2005-01-31 20:22 ` Luc Teirlinck @ 2005-02-01 4:36 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2005-02-01 4:36 UTC (permalink / raw Cc: stktrc, emacs-devel > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:22:39 -0600 (CST) > From: Luc Teirlinck <teirllm@dms.auburn.edu> > CC: stktrc@yahoo.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > I cannot see how this could be so bright as to annoy you. > > How bright a given color looks to a given person can vary _widely_ > from person to person. If this is personal, then the colors in the windowed session of Emacs will look annoyingly bright as well (to the same person). Which was one of the points in my message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
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* Re: Some xterm-256color face colors too bright? [not found] ` <i56oef48pr2.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> @ 2005-02-01 19:52 ` Eli Zaretskii 2005-02-01 20:21 ` Stefan Monnier [not found] ` <i564qgwvul2.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> 2005-02-01 20:56 ` David Hansen 1 sibling, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2005-02-01 19:52 UTC (permalink / raw Cc: emacs-devel > From: stktrc <stktrc@yahoo.com> > Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 13:48:49 +0200 > > Comparing terminal RosyBrown and windowed RosyBrown as background > colors gives that terminal RosyBrown is slightly brighter, but the > difference is not huge. > [...] > I want to stress that the brightness of the colors in the terminal are > not just an aesthetical annoyance or anything like that: it borders on > making the text unreadable. In windowed Emacs, everything is fine. ??? These two paragraphs seem to contradict one another: the first one says that the difference between the windowed and non-windowed session is small (which is expected, as the former one has more colors than 256), while the latter says that the difference is large (``borders on unreadable'' vs ``everything is fine''). I wonder how can this happen. Can you shed some light on this? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Some xterm-256color face colors too bright? 2005-02-01 19:52 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2005-02-01 20:21 ` Stefan Monnier [not found] ` <i564qgwvul2.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2005-02-01 20:21 UTC (permalink / raw Cc: stktrc, emacs-devel >>>>> "Eli" == Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> From: stktrc <stktrc@yahoo.com> >> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 13:48:49 +0200 >> >> Comparing terminal RosyBrown and windowed RosyBrown as background >> colors gives that terminal RosyBrown is slightly brighter, but the >> difference is not huge. >> [...] >> I want to stress that the brightness of the colors in the terminal are >> not just an aesthetical annoyance or anything like that: it borders on >> making the text unreadable. In windowed Emacs, everything is fine. > ??? These two paragraphs seem to contradict one another: the first one [...] > unreadable'' vs ``everything is fine''). I wonder how can this > happen. Can you shed some light on this? He also said: Comparing them as foreground colors gives a larger difference (text in the window RosyBrown being readable, while in terminal RosyBrown considerably-less-readable). -- Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
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* Re: Some xterm-256color face colors too bright? [not found] ` <i564qgwvul2.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> @ 2005-02-02 1:06 ` Stefan Monnier 2005-02-02 1:21 ` Miles Bader ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2005-02-02 1:06 UTC (permalink / raw Cc: emacs-devel > This issue troubled me both on an LCD and an CRT display, so I assumed > it wasn't related to anything LCD-specific such as sub-pixel > rendering. However, now I took the time try disabling sub-pixel > rendering. It's probably due to anti-aliasing. Sub-pixel rendering is just one of the tricks that can be used when doing anti-aliasing. Have you tried to disable both sub-pixel rendering and anti-aliasing? > So, it seems that the "fault" is not directly Emacs' (or so I > speculate from the small testing I did), but the sub-pixel > rendering's. Or just the anti-aliasing. What might be happening is that you're using a very light font (at the size you're using it, its lines are of thickness lower than 1 pixel, say), so without anti-aliasing it's "rounded up to 1", whereas anti-aliasing actually approximates the fractional pixel of thickness. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Some xterm-256color face colors too bright? [not found] ` <i564qgwvul2.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> 2005-02-02 1:06 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2005-02-02 1:21 ` Miles Bader 2005-02-02 4:37 ` Eli Zaretskii 2005-02-03 6:39 ` Richard Stallman 3 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Miles Bader @ 2005-02-02 1:21 UTC (permalink / raw Cc: emacs-devel On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 23:28:09 +0200, stktrc <stktrc@yahoo.com> wrote: > However, if that is the case I must have sub-pixel rendering enabled > on the CRT machine, which does not sound sensible (I have assumed it > would only be automatically enabled for LCDs). It might be possible > that it is enabled there anyway. xft does both sub-pixel rendering and anti-aliasing; the former only makes sense on LCDs, but the latter is fine for either. The effect of either on brightness depends on the fonts of course. To be honest this all sounds so completely installation/setting-specific that I'm not sure there's much Emacs can do, other than make customizing things as easy as possible. -Miles -- Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Some xterm-256color face colors too bright? [not found] ` <i564qgwvul2.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> 2005-02-02 1:06 ` Stefan Monnier 2005-02-02 1:21 ` Miles Bader @ 2005-02-02 4:37 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <i56brb32wtm.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> 2005-02-03 6:39 ` Richard Stallman 3 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2005-02-02 4:37 UTC (permalink / raw Cc: emacs-devel > From: stktrc <stktrc@yahoo.com> > Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 23:28:09 +0200 > > The question is then, how to proceeed? Assuming it is the sub-pixel > rendering that causes this: > > - Turn off sub-pixel rendering to gain readability for some default > faces in Emacs? Would be a shame to lose all the advantages it > brings. > > - Locally customize faces? Doable, but what if sub-pixel rendering > users (= LCD display) are common, and will just increase in numbers? > Would be reasonable to accomodate them. > > - Do nothing, because it's just me. Do a significant amount of other > Emacs users experience the readability problems? > > - Adjust Emacs defaults? Is it possible without causing degradation > for other users? I'd say it's something to customize locally, unless we hear similar problems from many users. Just to make sure it's not the color translation that causes this in some way: if you start two Emacs sessions side by side, one windowed, the other in xterm, and in each one say "M-x list-colors-display RET", is there an xterm color that looks like RosyBrown, more than the color mapped to it by default? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
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* Re: Some xterm-256color face colors too bright? [not found] ` <i56brb32wtm.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> @ 2005-02-02 18:04 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2005-02-02 18:04 UTC (permalink / raw Cc: emacs-devel > From: stktrc <stktrc@yahoo.com> > Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 10:24:53 +0200 > > "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > > > Just to make sure it's not the color translation that causes this in > > some way: if you start two Emacs sessions side by side, one windowed, > > the other in xterm, and in each one say "M-x list-colors-display RET", > > is there an xterm color that looks like RosyBrown, more than the color > > mapped to it by default? > > Terminal Emacs' list-colors-display doesn't give the same names as > window Emacs: it has black, red etc..., color 16, color-17, ..., > color-255. So the color RosyBrown can't be identified there, as far > as I can tell. You can see to what color xterm maps RosyBrown by evaluating this expression: (tty-color-desc "RosyBrown") > But I used customize-face to set a terminal Emacs face background to > RosyBrown and compare that with the window Emacs list-colors-display's > RosyBrown. They seem to be the same color. This is expected. So it looks like the problem is indeed in the font used by xterm and not in the color translation. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Some xterm-256color face colors too bright? [not found] ` <i564qgwvul2.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2005-02-02 4:37 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2005-02-03 6:39 ` Richard Stallman 3 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2005-02-03 6:39 UTC (permalink / raw Cc: emacs-devel Would the people interested in this topic please take the discussion off the list? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Some xterm-256color face colors too bright? [not found] ` <i56oef48pr2.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> 2005-02-01 19:52 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2005-02-01 20:56 ` David Hansen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: David Hansen @ 2005-02-01 20:56 UTC (permalink / raw On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 13:48:49 +0200 stktrc <stktrc@yahoo.com> wrote: > I have to make a reservation about sub-pixel rendering possibly > affecting the foreground comparisons: I haven't had time to ensure > it's off. On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 21:52:28 +0200 Eli Zaretskii wrote: > ??? These two paragraphs seem to contradict one another: the first one > says that the difference between the windowed and non-windowed session > is small (which is expected, as the former one has more colors than > 256), while the latter says that the difference is large (``borders on > unreadable'' vs ``everything is fine''). I wonder how can this > happen. Can you shed some light on this? Just a guess: Xft's anti aliasing blurs the font so that it appears brighter. David ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2005-02-03 6:39 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <i56u0oxeogg.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> 2005-01-31 19:25 ` Some xterm-256color face colors too bright? Eli Zaretskii 2005-01-31 20:22 ` Luc Teirlinck 2005-02-01 4:36 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <i56oef48pr2.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> 2005-02-01 19:52 ` Eli Zaretskii 2005-02-01 20:21 ` Stefan Monnier [not found] ` <i564qgwvul2.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> 2005-02-02 1:06 ` Stefan Monnier 2005-02-02 1:21 ` Miles Bader 2005-02-02 4:37 ` Eli Zaretskii [not found] ` <i56brb32wtm.fsf@shaka.acc.umu.se> 2005-02-02 18:04 ` Eli Zaretskii 2005-02-03 6:39 ` Richard Stallman 2005-02-01 20:56 ` David Hansen
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