From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Documentation for custom-file - is not (load custom-file) needed? Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:28:53 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <200412280428.iBS4Srhg002472@manatee.dms.auburn.edu> References: <200412231805.iBNI5Y514318@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <001e01c4ec79$7b779910$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1104208219 27464 80.91.229.6 (28 Dec 2004 04:30:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 04:30:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: johnw@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 28 05:30:12 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Cj8zs-0001UU-00 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 05:30:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cj9Ah-0005uV-Kb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:41:23 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1Cj9AB-0005sj-SQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:40:52 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1Cj9A8-0005rC-IY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:40:48 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cj9A8-0005r9-FY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:40:48 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cj8yj-0000K1-3I; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:29:01 -0500 Original-Received: from manatee.dms.auburn.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iBS4SsaB002475; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:28:54 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id iBS4Srhg002472; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:28:53 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: manatee.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se In-reply-to: <001e01c4ec79$7b779910$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> (lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:31505 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:31505 Lennart Borgman wrote: 1) Having "custom-file" saved to custom-set-variables means I can not copy "custom file" to a new location or computer without editing it. You do not have to edit it. Just customize it again through Custom. If you set custom-file in your .emacs, you have to edit .emacs anyway. You have to do _something_, no matter what. You can not possibly rename or copy a file and expect Emacs to know that you did this without telling it anything. Saving a little bit of time for potentially many users is a good thing. It will _not_ be many users. If you try to customize this through Custom, and choose "File", you immediately get warned not do this without reading the docstring carefully. You then get provided with two lines that you can kill and yank into .emacs and the docstring recommends that you just do that instead of customizing through Custom. 2) A GUI interface should be very helpful since most users will not try to read much of the help texts when using it. There are many defcustoms that are much more dangerous to customize blindly than this one. In this case you get clearly warned and even told that you probably want to set this in .emacs instead. I think that the problems are exactly at the point when "custom-file" is saved and this is probably what we will discuss later. I have no problem with rediscussing anything after the release. But unless we would decide to go for the ultimate and final solution right now, I believe that it is better to leave everything essentially like it is, but with better, more emphatic and more difficult to overlook documentation, as my patch does. Once more, the defcustom is kept for three reasons: 1. For people who are used to customize custom-file that way. Many of them do not consider the current brehavior broken or buggish at all. A change in behavior could potentially be confusing to them. 2. For people who use Custom as a browser. They get told to read the docstring, which provides two lines that can be killed and yanked into .emacs. 3. Not to have one or two Emacs versions with very exceptional implementations that we would need to be compatible with should we want to change this again. Sincerely, Luc.