From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Documentation for custom-file - is not (load custom-file) needed? Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:41:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <200412170541.iBH5fuk20957@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <200412140150.iBE1oTY02196@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200412150251.iBF2pKb10852@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200412160048.iBG0m2W17018@raven.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1103262392 8888 80.91.229.6 (17 Dec 2004 05:46:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 05:46:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: johnw@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 17 06:46:25 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CfAwb-0004bq-00 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 06:46:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CfB6s-0001tl-KZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 00:57:02 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CfB6X-0001qu-2w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 00:56:41 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CfB6T-0001oP-TK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 00:56:40 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CfB6S-0001mi-S2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 00:56:36 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CfAuO-0002uU-LU; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 00:44:08 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iBH5i2Fu005624; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:44:02 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7) id iBH5fuk20957; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:41:56 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Richard Stallman on Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:54:06 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:31227 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:31227 Richard Stallman wrote: In general, issues of what would happen when advanced users do obscure and unusual things do not carry a lot of weight. Even if something mildly unfortunate happens in these scenarios, it is not a strong argument against a change. The users who do this will just have to cope. I believe that nearly every user of Emacs has some specialized (i.e. obscure and unusual) needs of one form or the other. The more unexpected things happen in such situations, the less reliable Emacs becomes and reliability is, to me, one of the most important aspects of the quality of a program. I really do not want to go on forever about this, but I still want to point out one last time how easy the alternative is: (1) Disable automatic loading of custom-file after .emacs. (2) Make the defcustom into a defvar. Even better (but this is a minor issue): leave the defcustom, but put in a not to be missed warning in the Custom buffer. The latter provides full 100% backward compatibility and helps people who use Custom as a browser (which means most people). (3) Tell people who want to customize `custom-file' to put: (setq custom-file "~/mycustom.el") (load custom-file) in their .emacs (or something more complex for version specific customization). End of problem. In case of the latter version of (2), there is 100% backward compatibility and zero chance of confusing or inconveniencing people. With the former version of (2), it is pretty close: only people who used Custom before (like me) have to watch out and do something. I do not know what problem you are trying to solve that is worth the trouble that your more complex solution would create: (1) solves the repeated loading problem, (2) solves the Custom problem and I am unaware of any other problems that have been reported. Is the problem that the user has to write two lines into .emacs instead of one? Given that this only has to be done either once or for every new Emacs version, this seems completely insignificant. Is the remaining problem is that a beginning user might load a file with a `custom-set-variables' form that is not his custom-file, without fully know what he is doing? If so, we could treat that more or less like a disabled command. Warn and provide a variable to eliminate the warning. Sincerely, Luc.