From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Andries Brouwer Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: cc-mode adds newlines Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:19:01 +0100 Message-ID: <20041121211900.GA25181@apps.cwi.nl> References: <20041121122629.GE20436@apps.cwi.nl> <20041121142946.GO20436@apps.cwi.nl> <1101063835.549340.23229.nullmailer@Update.UU.SE> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1101072003 29917 80.91.229.6 (21 Nov 2004 21:20:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:20:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: bug-cc-mode@gnu.org, acm@muc.de, Andries Brouwer , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 21 22:19:45 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CVz7Y-000657-00 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:19:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CVzGY-0000Sn-PG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:29:02 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CVzGR-0000Rz-FW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:28:55 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CVzGQ-0000RV-GX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:28:54 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CVzGQ-0000RS-Bt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:28:54 -0500 Original-Received: from [192.16.191.8] (helo=hera.cwi.nl) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CVz6t-0005ow-9l; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:19:03 -0500 Original-Received: from apps.cwi.nl (apps.cwi.nl [192.16.191.34]) by hera.cwi.nl with ESMTP id iALLJ1xh008189 for ; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:19:01 +0100 (MET) Original-Received: (from aeb@localhost) by apps.cwi.nl (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.12.2) id iALLJ1d13048; Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:19:01 +0100 (MET) Original-To: "Alfred M. Szmidt" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1101063835.549340.23229.nullmailer@Update.UU.SE> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:30206 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:30206 On Sun, Nov 21, 2004 at 08:03:55PM +0100, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote: > > >You see - nobody wants c-require-final-newline. > > > > Untrue - Alfred M. Szmidt, for one, wants it. > > Did he tell you in private mail? To me he wrote > > "It is not relevant what I want" > > I told this on this mailing list, that you are incapable reading, is > really not my problem. > > To quote myself: > > ,---- > | > Feel free to change the setting in your .emacs. > | > | That is the typical defensive developer reaction that makes sure > | bugs stay for a long time. > | > | I suppose that it didn't occur to you that this might not be a bug? > | But something that Miles, and the rest of the world, actually thinks > | is a good idea. I for one consider it a good thing, and consider > | files that do not have a final newline broken. > `---- Enough has been said already, and I consider the discussion over. We know what is wrong. Maybe it will be fixed. The current setup is broken because it does things behind the user's back. It is also broken because the CC major mode is documented as "C mode: Major mode for editing K&R and ANSI C code", while K&R C is explicitly documented as not requiring a final newline. That makes the case for C not stronger than the case for java where no sneaky insertions are done by default. But now that you query my reading comprehension - let me explain to you that I distinguish carefully between people who want all their edited files to end in a newline (and then setting require-final-newline to true suffices) and people who do not want that, but do want all edited C files to get an automatic final newline. The part you quote suggests that you might belong to the former category, and when I enquired further, to be sure, you said that your personal opinion was not relevant. Thus, so far you never stated that you actually do want a c-require-final-newline different from require-final-newline, more or less contradicting the part you quote here. But after a little provocation people will find themselves with opinions they never imagined they could have :-) Good luck - Andries