C-c C-{l,r} in Enriched mode.

C-c C-{l,r} in Enriched mode.

[Luc Teirlinck]

enriched.el contains:

(define-key enriched-mode-map "\C-c\C-l" 'set-left-margin)
(define-key enriched-mode-map "\C-c\C-r" 'set-right-margin)

But C-c followed by a control character is reserved for _major_ modes.

`(emacs)Formatted Text' states:

   Enriched mode is a minor mode (*note Minor Modes::).  It is
typically used in conjunction with Text mode (*note Text Mode::), but
you can also use it with other major modes such as Outline mode and
Paragraph-Indent Text mode.

But when used in conjunction with Outline mode, Enriched mode
overrides Outline mode's C-c C-l (`hide-leaves') binding.

Should `set-{left,right}-margin' in Enriched mode be rebound?

While on the subject of keybindings, it seems that there are no rules
for C-c followed by a _Meta_ character.  Are these just too
inconvenient to worry about?

Sincerely,

Luc.

Re: C-c C-{l,r} in Enriched mode.

[Alex Schroeder]

Luc Teirlinck <teirllm@dms.auburn.edu> writes:

> While on the subject of keybindings, it seems that there are no rules
> for C-c followed by a _Meta_ character.  Are these just too
> inconvenient to worry about?

All major modes for inferior process based on comint such as shell
mode, the various interactive sql modes, ielm, etc. use at least one
such keybinding I've been using a lot:

C-c M-r runs the command comint-previous-matching-input-from-input

Eshell follows this convention:

C-c M-r runs the command eshell-previous-matching-input-from-input

Seems to me that these are reserved for the major mode...  Actually we
have global keybindings, we have a convention for major modes, and a
convention for users to put their bindings.  Do we have something like
that for minor modes as well?  I cannot remember.

Alex.
-- 
.O.  http://www.emacswiki.org/alex/
..O  Schroeder's fifth law:
OOO  Never accept more work than you can handle in one night of hacking.

Re: C-c C-{l,r} in Enriched mode.

[Richard Stallman]

    But when used in conjunction with Outline mode, Enriched mode
    overrides Outline mode's C-c C-l (`hide-leaves') binding.

    Should `set-{left,right}-margin' in Enriched mode be rebound?

It sounds like a good argument.  What new bindings do you suggest?

    While on the subject of keybindings, it seems that there are no rules
    for C-c followed by a _Meta_ character.  Are these just too
    inconvenient to worry about?

I think so.

Re: C-c C-{l,r} in Enriched mode.

[Luc Teirlinck]

Alex Schroeder wrote:

   Actually we have global keybindings, we have a convention for major
   modes, and a convention for users to put their bindings.  Do we
   have something like that for minor modes as well?  I cannot
   remember.

Yes, but minor modes do not get much and they are not supposed to
interfere with each other.  That is, a minor mode is not supposed to
use a binding used by any other minor mode.

>From `(elisp)Coding Conventions':

   * Sequences consisting of `C-c' followed by `{', `}', `<', `>', `:'
     or `;' are also reserved for major modes.

   * Sequences consisting of `C-c' followed by any other punctuation
     character are allocated for minor modes.  Using them in a major
     mode is not absolutely prohibited, but if you do that, the major
     mode binding may be shadowed from time to time by minor modes.

That is not a lot of bindings for all minor modes combined.

Sincerely,

Luc.

Re: C-c C-{l,r} in Enriched mode.

[Luc Teirlinck]

Richard Stallman wrote:

       But when used in conjunction with Outline mode, Enriched mode
       overrides Outline mode's C-c C-l (`hide-leaves') binding.

       Should `set-{left,right}-margin' in Enriched mode be rebound?

   It sounds like a good argument.  What new bindings do you suggest?

That does not seem that easy.  If we want C-c followed by a non
alphanumeric, non control character that suggests a left or right
margin in some way, then I only see `C-c [' for `set-left-margin' and
`C-c ]' for `set-right-margin'.  I am not sure whether these conflict
with other minor modes.  A problem may be that [ and ] are used for
left (or backward) and right (or forward) _motion_ in other contexts
(like `C-x [' and `C-x ]').

As an alternative, we could have `C-c M-l' and `C-c M-r', but C-c M-r is
already used by comint related modes and Eshell (as Alex pointed out).
I believe that, unlike outline-mode, enriched-mode is not really
supposed to be compatible with those modes, so maybe these two
bindings could be acceptable.  There are `C-c M-L' and `C-c M-R', but
those do not seem very convenient to type.

Sincerely,

Luc.

Re: C-c C-{l,r} in Enriched mode.

[Richard Stallman]

    That does not seem that easy.  If we want C-c followed by a non
    alphanumeric, non control character that suggests a left or right
    margin in some way, then I only see `C-c [' for `set-left-margin' and
    `C-c ]' for `set-right-margin'.

Those seem good to me.

Hardly any minor modes have key bindings.

Re: C-c C-{l,r} in Enriched mode.

[Luc Teirlinck]

Richard Stallman wrote:

       That does not seem that easy.  If we want C-c followed by a non
       alphanumeric, non control character that suggests a left or right
       margin in some way, then I only see `C-c [' for `set-left-margin' and
       `C-c ]' for `set-right-margin'.

   Those seem good to me.

   Hardly any minor modes have key bindings.

I checked for possible conflicts with other bindings in the Emacs
distribution.  Results:

C-c [ : reftex-citation, scribe-begin

C-c ] : calculator-clear-saved, scribe-end, idlwave-close-block,
        octave-close-block, up-list in texinfo-mode-map

`scribe' is in /obsolete and thus can be ignored, I guess.

I do not believe that Enriched mode is useful for editing IDL,
octave or texinfo source code anyway.  Nor does it seem useful for use
with the calculator.

It is not really seem useful for editing TeX source either, but
`(reftex)Citations Outside LaTeX' recommends to bind `C-c [' to
reftex-citation in non-TeX buffers.  I do not know whether this should
be considered a conflict and hence a problem for the C-c [ and C-c ]
bindings for set-{left,right}-margin in Enriched mode.

Sincerely,

Luc.

Re: C-c C-{l,r} in Enriched mode.

[Luc Teirlinck]

>From my earlier message:

   It is not really seem useful for editing TeX source either, but
   `(reftex)Citations Outside LaTeX' recommends to bind `C-c [' to
   reftex-citation in non-TeX buffers.  I do not know whether this should
   be considered a conflict and hence a problem for the C-c [ and C-c ]
   bindings for set-{left,right}-margin in Enriched mode.

Since the reftex binding is only a _suggested_ binding in non-TeX
buffers, I would, on second thought, presume that this is not really a
conflict and, hence, that the C-c [ and C-c ] bindings for
set-{left,right}-margin in Enriched mode are OK.

Sincerely,

Luc.

Re: C-c C-{l,r} in Enriched mode.

[David Kastrup]

Luc Teirlinck <teirllm@dms.auburn.edu> writes:

> Richard Stallman wrote:
>
>        That does not seem that easy.  If we want C-c followed by a non
>        alphanumeric, non control character that suggests a left or right
>        margin in some way, then I only see `C-c [' for `set-left-margin' and
>        `C-c ]' for `set-right-margin'.
>
>    Those seem good to me.
>
>    Hardly any minor modes have key bindings.
>
> I checked for possible conflicts with other bindings in the Emacs
> distribution.  Results:
>
> C-c [ : reftex-citation, scribe-begin
>
> C-c ] : calculator-clear-saved, scribe-end, idlwave-close-block,
>         octave-close-block, up-list in texinfo-mode-map

AUCTeX has LaTeX-close-environment, texinfo-insert-@end,
ConTeXt-close-environment on C-c ], depending on the major mode.

> I do not believe that Enriched mode is useful for editing IDL,
> octave or texinfo source code anyway.  Nor does it seem useful for
> use with the calculator.

Hmmm.  I have not enough of a clue about enriched mode to figure out
whether it should combine with TeX related modes.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: C-c C-{l,r} in Enriched mode.

[Luc Teirlinck]

David Kastrup wrote:

   Hmmm.  I have not enough of a clue about enriched mode to figure out
   whether it should combine with TeX related modes.

If you enable Enriched mode in a TeX related mode, you will not be
able to run TeX on the buffer nor the file.  So it does not seem to
make a lot of sense.  Actually, you will probably not be able to run
`reftex-citation' with Enriched mode enabled either, so I now believe that
my worries about conflicts with reftex were unfounded.

Sincerely,

Luc.

Re: C-c C-{l,r} in Enriched mode.

[Stefan Monnier]

> AUCTeX has LaTeX-close-environment, texinfo-insert-@end,
> ConTeXt-close-environment on C-c ], depending on the major mode.

That's not a conflict with enriched-mode: it's a conflict with the coding
conventions for major modes.


        Stefan

Re: C-c C-{l,r} in Enriched mode.

[Richard Stallman]

    Since the reftex binding is only a _suggested_ binding in non-TeX
    buffers, I would, on second thought, presume that this is not really a
    conflict and, hence, that the C-c [ and C-c ] bindings for
    set-{left,right}-margin in Enriched mode are OK.

Would you please make that change?

Re: C-c C-{l,r} in Enriched mode.

[Richard Stallman]

    If you enable Enriched mode in a TeX related mode, you will not be
    able to run TeX on the buffer nor the file.  So it does not seem to
    make a lot of sense.

I agree.  The TeX modes are irrelevant to the issue; please go ahead
and change the bindings.