From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Bug tracking (was: new *Help* argument highlighting) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:34:52 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <20040613033452.GB27992@fencepost> References: <20040512103042.FB57.JMBARRANQUERO@wke.es> <20040611122633.5F88.JMBARRANQUERO@wke.es> <87659wd44u.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> <87659wbl2q.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> <20040613023944.GA13072@fencepost> <87wu2ca3tw.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1087097738 15904 80.91.224.253 (13 Jun 2004 03:35:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 03:35:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juanma Barranquero , emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 13 05:35:30 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BZLmM-0006TN-00 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2004 05:35:30 +0200 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BZLmL-0002IY-00 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2004 05:35:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1BZLnA-0001QR-Jq for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:36:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1BZLn8-0001QC-8N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:36:18 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1BZLn7-0001Q0-Lk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:36:17 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1BZLn7-0001Px-IH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:36:17 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BZLlq-0004j1-PB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:34:58 -0400 Original-Received: from miles by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1BZLlk-0001Kt-JE; Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:34:52 -0400 Original-To: kfogel@red-bean.com Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87wu2ca3tw.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Blat: Foop X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:24908 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:24908 On Sat, Jun 12, 2004 at 04:01:15PM -0500, Karl Fogel wrote: > > It's critical, IMO -- my experience of using mozilla and savannah's bug > > tracker is that the annoyance of having to go to the web site and muddle > > through the forms significantly decreased the likelihood that I would > > bother (it was fine the first N times, but after a while I started to > > dread it). > > Note that filing bugs by email significantly increases the likelihood > of duplicate issues. > > One of the advantages of going to the web site is that you can first > search to see if the bug already exists in the database. Whereas if > you fire off an email, there's no query step. Sure, the editing > environment for an email is better -- Emacs buffer, rather than web > form -- but the web forms *are* also a realtime database front end, > and that makes a difference too. Indeed for the original bug submission, it helps to be able to search the database, but it's not necessary to use the web to do that (even though you might want to use an http/html-based interface of some sort for maximum firewall transparency) -- see debian's bug system for an example of a system that does most of the work on the client, but also uses a network database-access protocol of some sort to allow the user to look for old bugs (it doesn't a perfect interface; something emacs based would likely be much better). Note that another important area of bug submission, automatic detection of environmental parameters, can't be done by a web interface, meaning that the user is responsible for filling in lots of fussy details, which can make bug reporting a real chore. For many `bug management' tasks, the ease of automation and integration into one's normal workflow make email-friendly systems far superior, especially if there's an ancillary database-search mechanism that is easily accessible for automation (i.e. simple enough for an elisp program to use). > Please, let's not aim for perfection, that way lies madness. I agree, but I'm not suggesting that, merely trying to establish some minimal standards. Purely web-based systems are non-starter. Thanks, -Miles -- `Life is a boundless sea of bitterness'