From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Default Emacs keybindings Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:41:48 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <20040430214148.GA23347@fencepost> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1083361437 8183 80.91.224.253 (30 Apr 2004 21:43:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:43:57 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 30 23:43:49 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BJfnR-0005v8-00 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:43:49 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BJfnQ-00058E-00 for ; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:43:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BJfm7-0001CV-P5 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:42:27 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BJfm1-0001Bp-Rp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:42:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.30) id 1BJflV-0000wZ-3B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:42:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.164] (helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1BJflU-0000wV-Rm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:41:48 -0400 Original-Received: from miles by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.24) id 1BJflU-0007Jp-8L; Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:41:48 -0400 Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Blat: Foop X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:22466 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:22466 On Fri, Apr 30, 2004 at 03:06:00PM +0200, Per Abrahamsen wrote: > And no, I do not agree that the Emacs key bindings are inherently > superior for experienced users. They just happen to be what we are > used to. Well it kind of depends on _which_ keybindings you're talking about -- some emacs keybindings are just familiar, but others are pretty clearly more better in some cases. Obviously C-w is basically no better or worse than C-x, but the emacs-movment vs. arrow keys issue is quite different, the former being (obviously) far more efficient for a user that meets their criteria, but the latter being easier for an inexperienced user. Unfortunately in this limited namespace, it's hard to mix'n'match (despite Kim's valiant efforts), but luckily we _can_ have both arrow keys and emacs-movement keys. Also luckily, emacs is popular enough among developers that a lot of non-emacs software either understands basic emacs keystrokes (mozilla) or can be easily configured to do so (gnome). -Miles -- `The suburb is an obsolete and contradictory form of human settlement'