From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Info enhancements Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 15:40:51 -0600 (CST) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <200312062140.hB6LepT09869@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <200312061449.hB6Enaa16133@f7.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1070747445 7882 80.91.224.253 (6 Dec 2003 21:50:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 21:50:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: juri@jurta.org, bob@rattlesnake.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 22:50:42 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ASkK2-00064p-00 for ; Sat, 06 Dec 2003 22:50:42 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ASkK2-00027z-00 for ; Sat, 06 Dec 2003 22:50:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ASlFC-0008Cv-3w for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2003 17:49:46 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1ASlEo-00089z-OE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2003 17:49:22 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1ASlEH-0007Hy-Tr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2003 17:49:21 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ASlEH-0007Ej-6D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2003 17:48:49 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB6LlWKk014241; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 15:47:32 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hB6LepT09869; Sat, 6 Dec 2003 15:40:51 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: karl@freefriends.org In-reply-to: <200312061449.hB6Enaa16133@f7.net> (karl@freefriends.org) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:18478 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:18478 Again, sorry for assuming the wrong author in my previous message, falsely attributing quotes to Eli and misspelling Juri's name repeatedly (again). Let us see how many blunders I manage to commit in the present post. This concerns the problem with the place references lead to in info. As already mentioned, I believe that just going to the top of the node is better than guessing at the risk of misleading the user. The ideal would be to have a _reliable_ way to go to the correct place without requiring any changes in existing .texi files. Since a solution of this type is probably impossible, we should, in my opinion, stick with the @anchor solution. Juri's change requires rewriting references in .texi files in a way that departs from the present standard style and I believe that Juri mentioned himself in a previous post that his method is not 100% reliable. Hence I would personally _not_ lean toward making this particular change. This is, as I already pointed out before, independent of the question of whether we adopt the other changes in the patch. But what do we want to do with @anchor? I have always actually _avoided_ using it, because I saw it barely ever used in any major manual. For instance, it is _only_ used in texinfo.txi to illustrate the @anchor command itself and _never_ used in info.texi. I deduced from this an implicit stylistic guideline "by example" that one should use @anchor very sparingly, that is, only if *really* called for, and that it would not be appropriate to write five or so @anchors per node. If anchors are actually preferred over node names, unless the top of the node is the _real_ target, that should be clearly pointed out in texinfo.txi. Or one might give some guidelines on _when_ to use @anchor. If we started using @anchor systematically, the apparent inconsistency with older Texinfo source might be confusing to the user. A reference would lead in a random way either to the top of the node or to the "correct place". At the very least, something should be said about it in (info)Help-Xref. Sincerely, Luc.