From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes to Texinfo DTD Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 19:15:00 -0500 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <200312060015.hB60F0N10607@f7.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1070669859 26084 80.91.224.253 (6 Dec 2003 00:17:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 00:17:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: juri@jurta.org, epameinondas@gmx.de, teirllm@dms.auburn.edu, nferrier@tapsellferrier.co.uk, bob@rattlesnake.com, eliz@elta.co.il, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 01:17:32 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ASQ8a-0002AY-00 for ; Sat, 06 Dec 2003 01:17:32 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ASQ8Z-0005nU-01 for ; Sat, 06 Dec 2003 01:17:32 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ASR4k-0002Sm-Cp for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 20:17:38 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1ASR47-0002Hi-Ma for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 20:16:59 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1ASR3b-0002FI-Rh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 20:16:58 -0500 Original-Received: from [209.61.216.22] (helo=f7.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ASR3b-0002FF-IO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2003 20:16:27 -0500 Original-Received: (from karl@localhost) by f7.net (8.11.7-20030920/8.11.7) id hB60F0N10607; Fri, 5 Dec 2003 19:15:00 -0500 Original-To: storm@cua.dk X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:18448 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:18448 If XML is already there, then why do we discuss this issue at all? I have no idea. As far as I can see, the discussion is going in circles. We seem to be right back where we started a zillion messages ago. If someone wants to write a NEW info reader in emacs, based on makeinfo's xml output (which has existed for a couple of years, and is being actively maintained), please do. That is, as I understand it, the whole point -- allow Emacs on a bitmap display to use nice fonts, rebreak paragraphs, and all that other good stuff. To do that, it needs a structure-based representation of the Texinfo document. And that is precisely what the XML output gives you, the structure, unlike the Info (and DVI) output, which is virtually entirely physical. (HTML is somewhere in between.) Retrofitting structure into Info format is going to end up being equivalent to the XML, except MUCH more painful to define and deal with -- in my opinion, of course. So I don't want to spend time doing that. And, the point is not to "replace" the current character-based info reader, as rms, bob, I, and many others have said many times. I can't imagine why the two cannot peacefully coexist, and users will have the choice. Alternatively, Nic and Bob have already advanced a proposal to make Info work better with web browsers. So, a better-than-w3 web browser in Emacs could achieve the same goal. (By saying this, I know I risk a rerun of the whole thread ...)