From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes to Texinfo DTD Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:47:30 -0600 (CST) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <200312030147.hB31lUh20316@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <8765heixvu.fsf@kanga.tapsellferrier.co.uk> <87ptfkdqss.fsf@kanga.tapsellferrier.co.uk> <20031122214251.GA14680@fencepost> <874qwuqjzw.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <200311241619.hAOGJ6W27027@raven.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1070417261 27114 80.91.224.253 (3 Dec 2003 02:07:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 02:07:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: juri@jurta.org, epameinondas@gmx.de, bob@rattlesnake.com, nferrier@tapsellferrier.co.uk, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 03 03:07:37 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ARMQS-000890-00 for ; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 03:07:36 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ARMQS-0006T9-00 for ; Wed, 03 Dec 2003 03:07:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ARNDb-0006Lr-Bi for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:58:23 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1ARNBZ-0005Qi-V3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:56:17 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1ARNAo-0004KY-Rx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:56:02 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ARNAm-0004Dt-8v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:55:28 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB31s0Kk029475; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:54:00 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hB31lUh20316; Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:47:30 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: eliz@elta.co.il In-reply-to: (message from Eli Zaretskii on 02 Dec 2003 08:42:18 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:18301 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:18301 Eli Zaretskii wrote: We could as well treat this as a case of unfortunate wording in the ELisp manual. The above sentence could be modified to solve the problem at hand: The GNU C library manual (@pxref{Locales,,, libc, GNU Libc Manual}) has more information about locales and locale items. That would look terrible in the printed manual with a double nearly identically worded reference to the GNU Libc manual, once outside parentheses and once inside parentheses. The reference in its present form seems to come out OK in the printed manual, except that maybe "@xref{Locales,,, libc, GNU Libc Manual}," should be replaced by: "@xref{Locales,,, libc, The GNU Libc Manual},". I believe the latter would look better (in the printed manual). Anyway, Juri's patch would solve the problem I complained about. I notice in passing that a reference to a manual that might not be installed at all, because it describes a library that is only used by some platforms, might not be a good idea for purely didactic reasons: suppose my system doesn't use glibc---how would I learn more about Locales without the manual being available? How would you learn about Locales without _any_ manual being referenced? Of course, the user needs to be alerted that the reference leads to another manual that may or may not be available and, if Juri's patch gets installed, they will be. But why deprive users that do have the manual installed of this information because other users do not have the manual installed? That manual is free software. People who do not have it installed can install it. It is good to inform them that it is available. More generally, if the underlying C library is something other than glibc, I might wonder whether the discussion in the glibc manual is at all relevant to the treatment of locales I will see on my system. That manual pays considerable attention to portability. So my best guess is that it will be relevant. Sincerely, Luc.