From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: default-fill-column Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:37:55 -0600 (CST) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <200311151637.hAFGbtK17946@raven.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1068915223 32557 80.91.224.253 (15 Nov 2003 16:53:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:53:43 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 15 17:53:40 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AL3g4-00046f-00 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:53:40 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AL3g4-000079-00 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:53:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AL4cF-0005Z5-Sa for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:53:47 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AL4Ui-0004M6-HX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:46:00 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AL4Tu-0003CH-4Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:45:42 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.41.8] (helo=mx20.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.24) id 1AL4Ts-0002rw-8t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:45:08 -0500 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AL3WO-0002Nb-0D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:43:40 -0500 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAFGhZKk021438 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:43:35 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id hAFGbtK17946; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 10:37:55 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:17841 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:17841 I use `default-fill-column' as an example, but the remarks below seem to apply to all variables of the type `default-some-buffer-local-variable'. Ielm run: *** Welcome to IELM *** Type (describe-mode) for help. ELISP> (local-variable-p 'fill-column) nil ELISP> fill-column 70 ELISP> (setq default-fill-column 75) 75 ELISP> fill-column 70 ELISP> (local-variable-p 'fill-column) nil ELISP> (default-value 'fill-column) 75 ELISP> (buffer-local-value 'fill-column (current-buffer)) 75 ELISP> fill-column 70 Now fill-column has two values in *ielm*: The updated default-value accessed by `buffer-local-value' and the old default-value, accessed by ordinary evaluation. For instance,`describe-variable' which uses `buffer-local-value' says that the value is 75. It seems hard to consider this a "feature". At the very least, the fact that C-h v returns a value different from the value returned by evaluation has to be considered a bug. Again, `fill-column' is just an example. There are plenty of similar variables in Emacs and they all seem to behave this way. Final remark (continuation of Ielm run): ELISP> (setq-default fill-column (default-value 'fill-column)) 75 ELISP> fill-column 75 ELISP> Sincerely, Luc.