From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alper Ersoy Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: terminal escapes in Info files? Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:51:03 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <20031028105102.GA7330@dirtyweb.penguinpowered.com> References: <200310280126.h9S1Q9N16202@f7.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1067338616 5193 80.91.224.253 (28 Oct 2003 10:56:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:56:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eliz@elta.co.il, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 28 11:56:54 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AERWw-00010L-00 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:56:54 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AERWv-0003Ex-00 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:56:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AERTJ-0001s9-Ti for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 05:53:09 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AERT3-0001m9-Us for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 05:52:53 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AERSN-0001Ip-Fq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 05:52:42 -0500 Original-Received: from [212.253.36.66] (helo=dirtyweb.penguinpowered.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AERSF-0001EV-1A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 05:52:04 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 8641 invoked by uid 500); 28 Oct 2003 10:51:03 -0000 Original-To: Karl Berry Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200310280126.h9S1Q9N16202@f7.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:17497 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:17497 Karl Berry: > How about using what Enriched-Text mode uses in Emacs? See > etc/enriched.doc in the Emacs distro. > That is indeed a lot cleaner (also quite a bit more verbose :). Thanks > for mentioning it, I wasn't aware of it. I think we can summarize the possible directions in two groups: 1) Older versions friendly, 2) Future versions friendly. (1) is using ANSI escapes directly in Info files. The benefit is, these files will still be displayed correctly by older versions of info when -R option is given (though I'm not sure about emacs.) Also no further processing is necessary in info. Minimal set of changes, most will be in makeinfo. The downside is, GUI browsers will be limited severely by an inexpansible markup on what can be done when rendering. For example two elements having the same ANSI escapes (@var{} and @env{} are good candidates) may become indistinguishable even though there's enough room in the display environment to associate different styles with these elements. Also ANSI is a frozen specification, so we may hit its limits pretty soon. (2) is using a specialized markup. The benefit is of course Info files will take advantage of the medium they are presented in to its maximum, provided that the browser is aware of this markup. The downside is, Info becomes an intermediate format rather than a final one, always asking for an additional step in the browsers. Display will be totally screwed in older versions[1]. So, the decision really is on the part of Info history we can discard rather than the markup format. The bad thing about standards is it's very hard to break them ;) Thanks, [1] We must give a visual clue about this to avoid possible frustration. Perhaps something like the following at the top of each node? ^H^[ignore] Your browser relies on an obsolete Info specification. See *note bla bla::. ^H^[/ignore] (or some other markup) And a hidden DON'T PANIC! "bla bla" node that gives information about where to find new versions of browsers. Compliant browsers will conceal this text and also hide "bla bla" node from tab completions, next/prev commands, etc. completely. But I digress. -- Alper Ersoy