From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Kenichi Handa Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: windows-1251 language environment Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:50:19 +0900 (JST) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <200310280850.RAA05963@etlken.m17n.org> References: <200310032356.54476.pogonyshev@gmx.net> <200310060013.52049.pogonyshev@gmx.net> <200310070254.LAA11795@etlken.m17n.org> <87ekx0dne0.fsf@emacswiki.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1067331347 23066 80.91.224.253 (28 Oct 2003 08:55:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:55:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 28 09:55:42 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AEPde-0003Cj-00 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:55:42 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AEPde-0002Ij-00 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:55:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AEPZL-0001L3-0u for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:51:15 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AEPZD-0001Ks-Bz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:51:07 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AEPYh-0001EY-F4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:51:06 -0500 Original-Received: from [192.47.44.130] (helo=tsukuba.m17n.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AEPYg-0001DZ-P6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:50:35 -0500 Original-Received: from fs.m17n.org (fs.m17n.org [192.47.44.2]) by tsukuba.m17n.org (8.11.6p2/3.7W-20010518204228) with ESMTP id h9S8oOh00099; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:50:24 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from handa@m17n.org) Original-Received: from etlken.m17n.org (etlken.m17n.org [192.47.44.125]) by fs.m17n.org (8.11.6/3.7W-20010823150639) with ESMTP id h9S8oJs11713; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:50:19 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: (from handa@localhost) by etlken.m17n.org (8.8.8+Sun/3.7W-2001040620) id RAA05963; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:50:19 +0900 (JST) Original-To: alex@emacswiki.org In-reply-to: <87ekx0dne0.fsf@emacswiki.org> (message from Alex Schroeder on Sun, 26 Oct 2003 16:33:43 +0100) User-Agent: SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.2 (Yagi-Nishiguchi) APEL/10.2 Emacs/21.3 (sparc-sun-solaris2.6) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:17495 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:17495 In article <87ekx0dne0.fsf@emacswiki.org>, Alex Schroeder writes: > Dave Love writes: >> The trouble with `language' environments is that they have little to >> do with the language per se. If you're not going by system defaults >> (locales), I think you want to provide orthogonal customization of >> language, codeset, and other features. If you lump them all together, >> you'll have probably four for each Western European language: latin-1, >> latin-9, windows-1252 and utf-8. Then multiply by two or three for >> the possible input methods. Then the calendar is different in >> territories with the same language... > I agree with Dave Love. Take Switzerland as an example, and let us > only talk about German and French, excluding Italian and > Rhaeto-Romance. We speak German, but we use a different ispell > dictionary because instead of a sharp s we use double-s, and we use > our own keyboard layout. We use any of the four coding systems Dave > lists. We use a different date format (last time I checked). The > French speaking Swiss use the French ispell dictionary, but they, too, > have a different keyboard layout. > The language per se is not enough information. That's why I didn't simply use the term "language" but used "language environment". I agree that it's ridiculous to provide all possible combinations in advance. But, I think there should be a way to name a set of various orthogonal customizations so that a user can easily switch from one set to another by specifying a name. I think we should treat a "language environment" as something like a `theme' which is a collection of customizations of faces. --- Ken'ichi HANDA handa@m17n.org