From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Martin Pool Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: suggested feature -- console-mode frame title sets Xterm title Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:59:33 +1000 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <20031014035931.GH15872@vexed.ozlabs.hp.com> References: <87r8j9n6v4.fsf@blarg.net> <200206152147.g5FLlUB10968@aztec.santafe.edu> <20030929051617.GB7359@vexed.ozlabs.hp.com> <20031002063338.GA25969@vexed.ozlabs.hp.com> <20031003010404.GB1259@sourcefrog.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1066104369 19009 80.91.224.253 (14 Oct 2003 04:06:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 04:06:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 14 06:06:07 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A9GRj-0008VG-00 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:06:07 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A9GRj-0000kj-00 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:06:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1A9GN2-000709-KO for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:01:16 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1A9GMK-0006sc-8H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:00:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1A9GLn-0006jz-Gn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:00:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.6.86.110] (helo=sngrel4.hp.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1A9GLZ-0006gf-Al; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:59:58 -0400 Original-Received: from XAUBRG2.AUS.HP.COM (xaubrg2.aus.hp.com [15.23.69.43]) by sngrel4.hp.com (Postfix) with SMTP id EC79E121; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:59:36 +0800 (SST) Original-Received: from 15.23.69.43 by XAUBRG2.AUS.HP.COM (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:59:36 +1000 Original-Received: from XAUBRG2.AUS.HP.COM (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by XAUBRG2.AUS.HP.COM with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2656.59) id TTGL42X4; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:59:36 +1000 Original-Received: from 16.176.65.49 by XAUBRG2.AUS.HP.COM (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:59:35 +1000 Original-Received: from mbp by vexed with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1A9GLN-0004LK-00; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:59:33 +1000 Original-To: Richard Stallman Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-GPG: 1024D/A0B3E88B: AFAC578F 1841EE6B FD95E143 3C63CA3F A0B3E88B User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:17075 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:17075 On 4 Oct 2003, Richard Stallman wrote: > Sorry, I meant select-frame-by-name. > > > For multi-frame text terminals the names > > used to be F%d, but now they're "full" names, probably including the > > name of the buffer. > > Now I understand. But I think this is an undesirable > side effect that the user will notice. Can you find a way > to avoid altering these names? I've thought about this and I can't think of a completely satisfactory way to reconcile the differences between window-system and text frames in the existing documented behaviour. I don't feel qualified to decide what to break. If you let me know how you would like it to behave I'll try to write a patch. I'd guess the number of people using multiple frames on a text terminal is fairly small, though non-zero. I would also guess that more than half the people using emacs in termcap mode are doing so from some kind of terminal emulator under a window system (xterm, putty, etc) and so could benefit from seeing the title. If I had to decide, I would probably just remove the 'F%d' behaviour. (Specifically, remove that indicator from the toolbar, and remove it as the default name for tty frames.) This is a bit disturbing to people who were accustomed to those features, but it does not really remove any functionality, as they can still name frames by hand and switch between them. I'd choose this because in the long term it's better to move towards internal consistency at the price of sometimes breaking things. In some ways this is an improvement: when people have multiple frames, they will by default be named using buffer names, which are more meaningful than F%d. If people give their frames explicit names either by hand or from code then those names will work the same way. C-x 5 commands will also still be the same. I haven't ever seriously used multiple termcap frames. Maybe somebody who does use them has an opinion. Alternatively we could add an option to give tty frames these names as 'explicit names'. I would probably have it off by default, because for users who weren't specifically using this feature they're less friendly than the names produced by frame-title-format. Yet another option would be to introduce a new user-visible concept of a "frame number". That wouldn't preserve the exact same behaviour and I'm not sure it would be useful, but if you really want to preserve F%d it might be the best way. On the whole I think just making the behaviour the same will please many people, and annnoy fairly few, and be good for the code. But let me know what you want and I'll write it. -- Martin