From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changing the no-toolkit scrollbar thumb color. (minor issue) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:30:10 -0500 (CDT) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <200309290130.h8T1UAt12486@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <87fzijz4th.fsf@raven.i.defaultvalue.org> <200309262123.h8QLNNi07638@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200309272155.h8RLttv09524@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200309281642.h8SGgxc11119@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200309281801.h8SI1gV11332@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200309282347.h8SNlEi12333@raven.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1064799296 1535 80.91.224.253 (29 Sep 2003 01:34:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:34:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 29 03:34:55 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A3mwA-0008QK-00 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 03:34:54 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A3mwA-000062-00 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2003 03:34:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A3mvi-0004W7-RA for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:34:26 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.22) id 1A3mvG-0004VY-Tk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:33:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.22) id 1A3mvE-0004Uu-Ux for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:33:57 -0400 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A3mvE-0004UG-1F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:33:56 -0400 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h8T1XrAJ006013; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:33:53 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h8T1UAt12486; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:30:10 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: bob@rattlesnake.com In-reply-to: (bob@rattlesnake.com) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:16750 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:16750 Robert Chassell wrote: If he sees that it has no effect he is not going to assume the lack of effect is a feature; he is going to assume it is a bug. Worse, there is a good chance he will not read the documentation. Unfortunately, this is the way many people are, even some Emacs users. :-( Yes, but in this case the documentation is staring the user straight in the face. He has to actively "look the other way" not to see it. Currently we have (in the customization buffer): Scroll Bar face: (sample) Hide Face State: this face has not been changed with customize. Basic face for the scroll bar colors under X. Now we can change this line to say: Scroll Bar face: (sample) Hide Face State: this face has not been changed with customize. Basic face for non-GTK scroll bar colors under X. Custom has a very small number of standard "State" lines and we should be really careful before starting to mess with that system. If the user does not look at the standard line that tells him what the face is for, then why would he bother reading the "State" line, anyway? Why would he bother checking whether there is a message printed in the echo area? Note that normally, when browsing faces, the user does not even get to see the "State" line, he _only_ sees the documentation. From the parent group, one normally sees: Scroll Bar face: (sample) Show Face State: hidden, invoke "Show" in the previous line to show. Basic face for the scroll bar colors under X. Sincerely, Luc.