From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Werner LEMBERG Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [wl@gnu.org: changing line heights] Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:56:30 +0200 (CEST) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <20030927.075630.55493946.wl@gnu.org> References: <20030926.073223.258112866.wl@gnu.org> <3F73D92F.5050508@jclark.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1064642245 19613 80.91.224.253 (27 Sep 2003 05:57:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 05:57:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: miles@gnu.org, gerd.moellmann@t-online.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, jjc@jclark.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 27 07:57:22 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A3854-000705-00 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:57:22 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A3854-00019B-00 for ; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:57:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A384p-0002bc-GS for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:57:07 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.22) id 1A384g-0002Yo-HY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:56:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.22) id 1A384d-0002Wj-OK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:56:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [212.227.126.189] (helo=moutng.kundenserver.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A384Z-0002SK-5s; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:56:51 -0400 Original-Received: from [212.227.126.160] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1A384X-0005jN-00; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:56:49 +0200 Original-Received: from [80.129.71.156] (helo=orion.univie.ac.at) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (TLSv1:EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1A384W-00076V-00; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:56:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.univie.ac.at (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id h8R5uVa20270; Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:56:31 +0200 Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Mew version 4.0.58 on Emacs 21.3.50.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:16692 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:16692 > It looks like the problem is that the appearances for 0x27 and 0x60 > don't look right for open and close quote, but the others that look > right for open/close quote are at the same time too similar to each > other. Is that correct? Not really. It depends on the used fonts. `Classical' fonts like the ETL bitmap fonts which provide only glyphs for ISO 8859 characters normally don't have U+2018/U+2019 at all -- the exception is greek-iso8859-7, but this is broken currently (see my other mail). For such fonts, the ` and ' characters are almost exclusively used for left and right quotes -- there is hardly a need to have a stand-alone version of the grave accent. [I know this is hard to avoid on e.g. German keyboards which use dead-keys to create accented characters.] In case someone wants to use U+2018 and U+2019 instead of 0x27 and 0x60, there must be a possibility to select the font. In my case, I would select the ETL iso-8859-7 fonts for *some* modes, not for all. > If we need to offer multiple options, this is a good way to make > them default more correctly. At the same time, it might be a ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [Can't resist: Either something is correct, or it isn't -- what does `more correctly' then mean? :-)] > substantial amount of work just to enter and maintain data about > lots of fonts. I think this is unavoidable. IMHO you shouldn't combine glyphs from different fonts without asking the user. Perhaps some standard fonts can be covered in a table, but in general this won't work. A suggestion: If the user types `C-u C-x =' while being on a left or right quote, a string like This glyph is probably taken from another font and thus looks ugly! Please use `M-x configure-quotation-glyphs' to set up replacement glyphs for the left and right quotation characters. could appear in the pop-up window. Werner