From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.cc-mode.general,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: cc-langs.el Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:21:28 -0400 Sender: cc-mode-help-admin@lists.sourceforge.net Message-ID: <20030822212128.GD11008@fencepost> References: <5bekzd29w7.fsf@lister.roxen.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1061587704 993 80.91.224.253 (22 Aug 2003 21:28:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 21:28:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: cc-mode-help-admin@lists.sourceforge.net Fri Aug 22 23:28:22 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.sourceforge.net ([66.35.250.206] helo=sc8-sf-list2.sourceforge.net) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19qJSI-00077A-00 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 23:28:22 +0200 Original-Received: from sc8-sf-list1-b.sourceforge.net ([10.3.1.13] helo=sc8-sf-list1.sourceforge.net) by sc8-sf-list2.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 19qJRj-0003wq-00; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:27:47 -0700 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by sc8-sf-list1.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Cipher TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 19qJOZ-0002Qb-00 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:24:32 -0700 Original-Received: from miles by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.20) id 19qJLc-00051S-Gc; Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:21:28 -0400 Original-To: bug-cc-mode@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5bekzd29w7.fsf@lister.roxen.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Blat: Foop Errors-To: cc-mode-help-admin@lists.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: cc-mode-help@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9-sf.net Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Bug reports, feature requests, and general talk about CC Mode. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: X-Original-Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:21:28 -0400 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.cc-mode.general:745 gmane.emacs.devel:16079 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:16079 On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 01:45:44PM +0200, Martin Stjernholm wrote: > I still don't understand this aversion to the CL functions. I find it > absurd that there is an old and well established set of basic tools > that can't be used in many situations. I can't speak for Richard, but my aversion is because cl is of extremely variable quality -- much of it is very handy, but some of it really sucks (in many cases unavoidably, because it tries to do things that don't fit well into emacs' lisp engine, and unfortunately its all packaged as one big ball of hair. It's trying to provide compatibility that ultimately (1) can't be done exactly, and (2) sometimes causes big performance problems by trying. I would be a lot happier if the functionality were split up somehow, and the uncontroversial bits basically made into a separate package that makes no attempt to be `common-lisp,' but rather just tries to be a useful toolkit for elisp, and is optimized for such. [BTW, I love common-lisp, but cl is not it; sometimes it seems almost a mockery...] -Miles -- Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. -- Jerry Garcia ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: VM Ware With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single machine. WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual machines at the same time. Free trial click here:http://www.vmware.com/wl/offer/358/0