From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Reducing mouse-dependency In Emacs. Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:35:29 -0500 (CDT) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <200308140035.h7E0ZTf26665@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: <200308130536.h7D5avD22390@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200308131259.h7DCxbI22580@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <16186.49695.437995.793551@nick.uklinux.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1060821549 7963 80.91.224.253 (14 Aug 2003 00:39:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 00:39:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 14 02:39:07 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19n68x-0008Uo-00 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2003 02:39:07 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19n69H-0007wW-00 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2003 02:39:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19n68A-0006BF-0R for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:38:18 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19n67m-0006Ar-BN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:37:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19n67G-0005bm-II for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:37:53 -0400 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19n67G-0005bf-8B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:37:22 -0400 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h7E0bKeQ014731; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:37:20 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h7E0ZTf26665; Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:35:29 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: nick@nick.uklinux.net In-reply-to: <16186.49695.437995.793551@nick.uklinux.net> (message from Nick Roberts on Wed, 13 Aug 2003 23:56:31 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:15933 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:15933 Nick Roberts wrote: I agree with Miles, I don't think that you need to know all these things. I think that Emacs *provides* the appropriate arguments depending on the context, which can then used in the function that evaluates to a string. If you, or anybody else, can point me to an existing Lisp function or any other way that Emacs already "provides" these arguments in Lisp and without mouse-over, I obviously will use it (and then everything I write below can just be ignored). I could not find any, but I did not read through the entire Emacs Lisp code. I do not even really believe that Miles was necessarily arguing against my proposed new primitive (he can tell), I believe he was just asking me for information. IMO, `customize' works well with and without the mouse. Here, a tooltip is displayed if the mouse is placed over a widget. In the mouseless scenario, the help is displayed in the echo area. Did you check in detail how Custom manages to print the help-echo in the echo area? If I understood correctly (it does not at all seem that "simple" to me), it apparently uses two extra text properties it manages itself, `button' and `field', depending on the situation, to store and recover the information. I propose to use one extremely simple and short C function and one very simple and short Lisp function, compared to the entire machinery used by Custom, and it would work in a way more general situation. In my situation, I can not do what Custom does, because I do not have the information stored in `button' and `field' properties. Sincerely, Luc.