From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: last-sexp-toggle-display Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:56:38 -0500 (CDT) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <200308071656.h77Guc115098@raven.dms.auburn.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1060276338 10208 80.91.224.253 (7 Aug 2003 17:12:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 17:12:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 07 19:12:41 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19koJd-0005SP-00 for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2003 19:12:41 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19koPA-0003D9-00 for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2003 19:18:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19koG1-0002eR-6A for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2003 13:08:57 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19koFV-0002PA-FA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2003 13:08:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19ko6G-0005YF-HX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2003 12:59:23 -0400 Original-Received: from [131.204.53.104] (helo=manatee.dms.auburn.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19ko5l-0005Nk-4Z; Thu, 07 Aug 2003 12:58:21 -0400 Original-Received: from raven.dms.auburn.edu (raven.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.29]) by manatee.dms.auburn.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h77GwFeQ001610; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:58:15 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by raven.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h77Guc115098; Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:56:38 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Richard Stallman on Thu, 07 Aug 2003 02:04:52 -0400) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:15833 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:15833 Richard Stallman wrote: What would people think of putting last-sexp-toggle-display in Lisp modes on M-RET instead of on RET? I believe that you are referring to local keymaps set up by `eval-last-sexp-1', which can be produced in any mode whatsoever and not just in Lisp modes. These local keymaps are extremely confusing. Some command like C-u C-x C-e produce them, whereas others such as C-u M-: produce identical output without the local keymap. All without any apparent rhyme or reason and without any way to distinguish the two outputs other than to move one's mouse over them. The `mouse-face' and `help-echo' text properties are only useful if the user is using the mouse. Maybe one should use a more "permanent" face than `mouse-face' for regions with a local keymap. Or maybe one should just be a lot more reluctant to use local keymaps, especially in ordinary buffers meant to be edited. The proposed change would be an obvious improvement to a very bad situation. The current binding of RET in those local keymaps is both extremely confusing and a real nuisance. In Lisp interaction mode one regularly wants to edit return values. Also, one often wants to put a newline in front of C-u C-x C-e output. Clearly, basic editing commands like RET should not be rebound using local keymaps, except in read-only buffers. Sincerely, Luc.