From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juanma Barranquero Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gud lord! Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 09:51:25 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <20030609091728.2C7D.JMBARRANQUERO@laley.wke.es> References: <16098.1698.415992.223606@nick.uklinux.net> <200306071612.h57GCJQi010536@rum.cs.yale.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1055145202 9981 80.91.224.249 (9 Jun 2003 07:53:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 07:53:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 09 09:53:21 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19PHSz-0002ao-00 for ; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 09:53:21 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19PHmt-0000MX-00 for ; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 10:13:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19PHSt-0005V1-Tm for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 03:53:15 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19PHQz-00042C-3T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 03:51:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19PHQe-0003v5-Tl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 03:50:57 -0400 Original-Received: from laley-actualidad.es ([195.53.61.17] helo=haya.laley.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19PHPW-0003cm-4W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 03:49:46 -0400 Original-Received: from idefix.laley.net (correo.wke.es [172.17.220.16]) by haya.laley.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31287; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 09:47:31 +0200 Original-Received: from [172.17.221.23] (jsredondo.wk.org [172.17.221.23]) by Version 5.5.2655.55) id LP7A4GQD; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 09:50:37 +0200 Original-To: "Stefan Monnier" In-Reply-To: <200306071612.h57GCJQi010536@rum.cs.yale.edu> X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.06.02 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:14937 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:14937 On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 12:12:18 -0400 "Stefan Monnier" wrote: > I don't have a particular opinion on this except I'd like to remind > people that CVS deals very poorly with file moves I know. In fact, when talking about moving files I specifically asked if there was a way to keep information for moved files, and the answers said: "No, the best way is cp, cvs rm, cvs add." > so it's best > to refrain from doing them unless there's a really compelling reason. =46rom Richard Stallman, Wed, 14 may 2003: > Can anyone suggest Lisp files that ought to be moved to a different > place under the `lisp' directory? so people shouldn't be surprised if finally some lisp files get moved. I didn't see a single reply to that thread that said: "No, please, let's not move anything unless there's a *very strong* reason, because we'll lose history and it's going to be a PITA." > I'd be happy to see gud.el reintegrate its lisp/gud.el location for > this reason. >=20 > Stefan "who wasn't particularly thrilled by the move of outline.el > for example" I'm thrilled by every move whose result makes the lisp/ structure and organization better (for, admitedly, highly subjective definitions of "better"). Tracking changes in CVS files is harder after they move, true; but I was under the feeling that lisp/ organization was there to help users, not developers :) Fact is, all these changes except the last one (gud.el) were suggested in the above mentioned thread and no opinions were heard against. There were complains for a few modules (Lucid related, mostly) and those didn't move. And every one of these changes was approved by RMS; gud's move to progmodes was in fact *asked* by him (I hadn't thought of it). Every single time that big changes (big =3D=3D "affecting more than one fil= e") are suggested in the list (be whitespace cleanup, macro changes, code or modules reorganization, whatever), there's little or no discussion, no one really opposes... and then, after the fact, disagreement suddenly pop ups. I find it quite a bit tiring. (I'm not talking just about things where I was involved; the same happened for Ken Raeburn's Guile-related reorganization, for example.) Juanma