From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposed new minor mode Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 06:59:31 -0500 (CDT) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <200306071159.h57BxVt29416@eel.dms.auburn.edu> References: <200306070151.h571pAe29047@eel.dms.auburn.edu> <3995-Sat07Jun2003121259+0300-eliz@elta.co.il> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1054987217 11459 80.91.224.249 (7 Jun 2003 12:00:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 12:00:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 07 14:00:07 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19OcMh-0002xx-00 for ; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 14:00:07 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19Ocfi-0002Sp-00 for ; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 14:19:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19OcNk-0004wC-Ml for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 08:01:12 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19OcMo-0004Hf-Og for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 08:00:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19OcMf-0003op-NV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 08:00:10 -0400 Original-Received: from manatee.dms.auburn.edu ([131.204.53.104]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19OcM1-00027X-25; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 07:59:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eel.dms.auburn.edu (eel.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.108]) h57BxMoc004185; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 06:59:22 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by eel.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h57BxVt29416; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 06:59:31 -0500 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: eel.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: dak@gnu.org In-reply-to: (David.Kastrup@t-online.de) Original-cc: eliz@elta.co.il X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:14873 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:14873 David Kastrup wrote: Strange. I think I read the contention several times that it would be a good idea to edit the buffer, making the text better match the appearance. A contention is not a decision. I was told that the only decision remaining to be made on info was whether or not we would pursue Kim's current attempts at refilling, with which there seem at present still to be some problems. (I do not know whether or not they are fixed or about to be fixed by now.) If I misunderstood this, then we could reopen the discussion on this. The surprise is not ameliorated by the availability of a command toggling some visibility. The novice user caught by surprise will not think "Oh, I should have called vis-mode-disable in order not get this". Users who do not read manuals will get surprises. Users who do read manuals or tutorials deserve not to. I plan to rewrite a part of the tutorial. Given the current implementation, I believe that I have to make the user aware that the text described for the standalone version is really there in the Emacs version too, just hidden, and that one can get confronted with it. (I do not intend to spend paragraphs on this, but I believe it needs to be mentioned.) It also has the advantage that the Emacs user learning this would have encountered the notion of a node name at this stage, just like the user using the standalone version. That notion is referred to later. If we implement buffer editing, I would tell the Emacs user about node names in some other way. On a separate matter, if you want to use this minor mode, you have to call vis-mode. vis-mode-disable is a technical internal function, needed because functions in normal hooks can not accept arguments. > The user needs to be aware the text is there, because sooner or > later he is going to be confronted with it. And then he will get aware of it. But clueless. Sincerely, Luc.