From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Divergence in menu appearance between Emacs Info and standalone Info Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:04:28 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <200306041404.h54E4SO30552@f7.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1054735644 29040 80.91.224.249 (4 Jun 2003 14:07:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 14:07:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 04 16:07:20 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19NYvA-0007Xk-00 for ; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 16:07:20 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19NZCl-0003eR-00 for ; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 16:25:31 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19NYx6-0003WJ-Ry for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 10:09:20 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19NYwm-0003Uj-Fi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 10:09:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19NYwk-0003UR-RE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 10:08:59 -0400 Original-Received: from consort.superb.net ([209.61.216.22] helo=f7.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19NYsP-00022t-Dx; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 10:04:29 -0400 Original-Received: (from karl@localhost) by f7.net (8.11.7/8.11.6) id h54E4SO30552; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:04:28 -0400 Original-To: rms@gnu.org Original-cc: bob@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:14686 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:14686 One idea is to take out the Emacs feature that hides this text, so the text becomes visible again. I'm afraid that I have some sympathy for this approach, despite the work that's gone into it. I recognize that the node names are, in some sense, `extra' information and removing them makes for fewer things for the reader to see. That much is good. But the downside is that Texinfo is completely based on node names, and hiding them seems to me like it could easily cause more confusion than it solves. In the example at hand, * Foo: A Node about Foo: ... the user will select `Foo', but then end up at `A Node about Foo', with no real way of making the connection between them. Another idea is to change the stand-alone Info to hide this text too, and then change info.texi accordingly. I won't be able to do this myself any time soon. However, I'll ask the other Info programmer volunteers if they'd like to work on it. A third option is to put conditionals into info.texi and have two versions of it, one for Emacs and one for standalone info. But I think that divergence is probably a bad idea. I don't like the divergent conditionals either. However, I think it would be ok to simply say in info.texi, `Emacs Info does it this way, and standalone Info does it that way'. I think that would be clear to users of both programs. Better than (effectively) having two different manuals with the same name, anyway. What do you think? I gather the default is to hide the node names. Because of the problems above, I suggest making the default to show them, i.e., the traditional behavior. Also, from previous mail, I think that node names can also now be hidden in xrefs? Anywhere else? The Texinfo manual will also need to mention this new feature, lest authors be confused when Emacs does not show them what the manual says to expect. Thanks, karl