From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stefan Monnier" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Cyrillic vs UTF-8 Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 20:52:29 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <200305190052.h4J0qUfa017404@rum.cs.yale.edu> References: <1858-Fri25Apr2003194023+0300-eliz@elta.co.il> <200304282149.h3SLnxSU002624@rum.cs.yale.edu> <200305190040.JAA01942@etlken.m17n.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1053305685 946 80.91.224.249 (19 May 2003 00:54:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 00:54:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: monnier+gnu/emacs@rum.cs.yale.edu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Mon May 19 02:54:42 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19HYvK-0000Ez-00 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 02:54:42 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19HZ4t-0006WY-00 for ; Mon, 19 May 2003 03:04:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 19HYv6-0007cf-01 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Sun, 18 May 2003 20:54:28 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 19HYu8-0006rj-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 May 2003 20:53:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 19HYtT-0006fA-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 May 2003 20:52:50 -0400 Original-Received: from rum.cs.yale.edu ([128.36.229.169]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 19HYtJ-0006Bv-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 May 2003 20:52:37 -0400 Original-Received: from rum.cs.yale.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rum.cs.yale.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4J0qUx6017406; Sun, 18 May 2003 20:52:30 -0400 Original-Received: (from monnier@localhost) by rum.cs.yale.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h4J0qUfa017404; Sun, 18 May 2003 20:52:30 -0400 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.4 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 Original-To: Kenichi Handa Original-cc: jas@extundo.com Original-cc: eliz@elta.co.il Original-cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:13982 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:13982 > > Agreed, but I think one of the problems is that the preference-ordering > > is the same for load-time-detection as it is for save-time-detection, > > so if you move utf-8 up for detection you end up saving all new files > > in utf-8 which is not OK in non-utf-8 locales. > > I suggested introducing a second preference-order, but nothing came > > out of it (probably because I didn't code anything up). > > I'd like to avoid introducing a new mechanism to control a > coding system as far as possible. And, the second > preference-order (used for saving) works only in this case: > > (1) The buffer file coding system can't encode the current > buffer, and > (2) The most preferred coding system can encode the current > buffer, and > (3) A user doesn't want to use the most preferred one. > > Isn't it a very rare case? Maybe it is. In my situation, I'd like utf-8 to be at the top of the preferences w.r.t decoding because it virtually never guesses wrong. OTOH, I'm still using a mostly-latin-1 environment, so I'd still rather avoid utf-8 when I can. I.e. latin-1 should be at the top of my preferences w.r.t encoding. I.e. utf-8 is definitely not my most preferred encoding, but since Emacs will often mistake a utf-8 text for latin-1 whereas it virtually never mistakes a latin-1 text for utf-8, I do put utf-8 as my most preferred encoding (and then try not to forget to do C-x RET f when saving a new file). Stefan