From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gtk scrollbar: thumb too short Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:05:22 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <20030412000522.GA29211@gnu.org> References: <200304111308.h3BD8oW03188@eel.dms.auburn.edu> <844r55f7yr.fsf@lucy.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.de> <84el49yp1m.fsf@lucy.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.de> <84r8887olu.fsf@lucy.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1050106458 11345 80.91.224.249 (12 Apr 2003 00:14:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 00:14:18 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 12 02:14:15 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1948et-0002wZ-00 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 02:14:15 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1948kZ-0002Hp-00 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 2003 02:20:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 1948b6-0001Ae-09 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:10:20 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 1948aN-0000dU-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:09:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 1948a3-000095-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:09:17 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 1948WI-0007Km-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:05:22 -0400 Original-Received: from miles by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.10) id 1948WI-0007tu-00; Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:05:22 -0400 Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <84r8887olu.fsf@lucy.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Blat: Foop X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:13177 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:13177 On Fri, Apr 11, 2003 at 10:42:21PM +0200, Kai Gro?johann wrote: > I just want to make it so that scrolling beginning of buffer to the > first window line and scrolling end of buffer to the last window line > are about equally easy. Scrolling end of buffer to the first window > line should still be possible, just not as easy as the other two. Given the `squishy scrollbar thumb' model, I think what you'd end up with is that scrolling the last line of the buffer to _approximately_ the last line of the screen would be easy -- because you have obvious visual feedback, it would be pretty intuitive to stop before the maximum overscroll, but probably not easy to do it _exactly_ (of course I'm talking about large buffers; with small buffers, the large thumb makes everything pretty easy). However, I think `approximately' is good enough; people don't actually need to position the text exactly, they just need to get the end of the buffer with enough text visible to be useful for editing, and from my little experience with the emacs non-toolkit scrollbars, this is not a problem (typically I initially overscroll a lot by moving the thumb quickly to the end, but backing up a bit to put more text on the screen is a natural and easy action because of the `obviousness' of the visual feedback). The previous suggestion (from Luc?) about implementing `stickiness' might be a good refinement to this though -- have the scrollbar `stick' at the maximum visible at end position for a while (IOW, there's a certain additional amount of the scrollbar range that all maps to this one position). This would make positioning at the max-visible spot _very_ easy. -miles -- Run away! Run away!