From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gtk scrollbar: thumb too short Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:06:25 -0600 (CST) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <200303312206.h2VM6PA10466@eel.dms.auburn.edu> References: <20030325193739.ZGIN3924.fep01-svc.swip.net@gaffa.gaia.swipnet.se> <3E8345E8.4090509@swipnet.se> <1048872463.17161.132.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1049134327.3326.74.camel@localhost.localdomain> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1049149106 22502 80.91.224.249 (31 Mar 2003 22:18:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:18:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 01 00:18:23 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1907bi-0005qW-00 for ; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 00:18:22 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1907c1-0001VQ-00 for ; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 00:18:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 1907ay-0003BC-01 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:17:36 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 1907aT-00035O-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:17:05 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 1907YS-0002bf-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:15:01 -0500 Original-Received: from manatee.dms.auburn.edu ([131.204.53.104]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 1907PR-0000Wt-00; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:05:41 -0500 Original-Received: from eel.dms.auburn.edu (eel.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.108]) h2VM5Poc012699; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:05:25 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by eel.dms.auburn.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) id h2VM6PA10466; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:06:25 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: eel.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: otaylor@redhat.com In-reply-to: <1049134327.3326.74.camel@localhost.localdomain> (message from Owen Taylor on 31 Mar 2003 13:12:07 -0500) Original-cc: rms@gnu.org Original-cc: jan.h.d@swipnet.se Original-cc: kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:12777 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:12777 Owen Taylor wrote: (Note that by allowing the user to drag the thumb to overscroll, no matter how you do it, you make the operation of scrolling to the last page of the document a precision operation rather than something where the user can just drag the scrollbar down as far as it can go quickly.) I agree that it might be problematic to make overscrolling the default behavior for *all* applications. The problem you describe would be particularly bad for applications that have standard clickable lines at the bottom that the user may want to reach quickly, style: <<< Previous Home Next>>> or whatever, especially if that application provided no other convenient way to scroll to that place (say pressing the "End" key.) For the character based philosophy of Emacs it is clear where the overscrolled region starts (just after the last character), but what exactly happens for applications that themselves already leave whitespace at the bottom to ensure that the last relevant line will not be positioned too far to the bottom? You have to decide whether dragging the scrollbar to the bottom: - Scrolls to last page of the document - Scrolls to the maximally overscrolled position (one line at the top of the screeen) Would it be possible for GTK to leave that choice either up to the application or up to the user? There are plenty of applications were if it were up to me I would choose possibility (1). For Emacs I would choose (2), the current behavior. Actually, for Emacs I personally use the native scrollbar, which seems better adapted to Emacs' character based philosophy. This does not mean that I would want to use that scrollbar for other applications. What is a good scrollbar for Emacs is not necessarily a good scrollbar for other applications and vice versa. Sincerely, Luc.