From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Luc Teirlinck Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gtk scrollbar: thumb too short Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:15:12 -0600 (CST) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <200303280215.UAA28162@eel.dms.auburn.edu> References: <20030325193739.ZGIN3924.fep01-svc.swip.net@gaffa.gaia.swipnet.se> <1048780121.14517.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200303271630.h2RGU1bT028651@rum.cs.yale.edu> <1048799271.15136.69.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1048801290.15149.88.camel@localhost.localdomain> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1048817701 25016 80.91.224.249 (28 Mar 2003 02:15:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 02:15:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: monnier+gnu/emacs@rum.cs.yale.edu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 28 03:14:59 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18yjOV-0006VK-00 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 03:14:59 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18yjQe-0006HK-00 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 03:17:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18yjO5-0006or-03 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 21:14:33 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18yjNs-0006oY-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 21:14:20 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18yjNp-0006oL-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 21:14:19 -0500 Original-Received: from manatee.dms.auburn.edu ([131.204.53.104]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18yjNp-0006oF-00; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 21:14:17 -0500 Original-Received: from eel.dms.auburn.edu (eel.dms.auburn.edu [131.204.53.108]) h2S2EBB04547; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:14:11 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (from teirllm@localhost) by eel.dms.auburn.edu (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) id UAA28162; Thu, 27 Mar 2003 20:15:12 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: eel.dms.auburn.edu: teirllm set sender to teirllm@dms.auburn.edu using -f Original-To: otaylor@redhat.com In-reply-to: <1048801290.15149.88.camel@localhost.localdomain> (message from Owen Taylor on 27 Mar 2003 16:41:30 -0500) Original-cc: jan.h.d@swipnet.se Original-cc: rms@gnu.org Original-cc: kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de Original-cc: jody@gnome.org Original-cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:12687 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:12687 Jody Goldberg wrote: Gnumeric has received alot of bug reports on this score. Some people like the thumb to indicate the visible rows, others want it to display the visible region. We have received complaints both ways. My preference is for the visible region to provide some feedback that there is hidden content. Both the native scrollbar and the default (no options to configure) Xaw3d scroll bars seem to display the "visible region" (if I understand correctly) and do so, in my judgment, in an accurate way. One can have all kinds of opinions about other behavior being or not being preferable, but I would not use the term "whacky" for the present behavior. Owen Taylor wrote: (Presumably, if you have a large chunks of hidden text anywhere in your document, the scrollbar will go whacky.) Is this a more than a mere "presumption"? and: By "go whacky", I didn't mean the problem with dragging off the end, but simply that a character-based scrollbar is going to inherently act in a confusing matter, especially in the presence of invisible text. Maybe it "theoretically ought to" inherently act in a confusing matter, but somehow I do not see it actually happen. (Except for the thumb size problem, which does not occur for the native scrollbar.) Of course, as is clear from Jody's message, one person's "expected behavior" is going to be another person's confusion and vice versa. Sincerely, Luc.