no font shown with tamil.el

no font shown with tamil.el

[Robert J. Chassell]

The HELLO buffer no longer shows Hindi and does not show Tamil fonts.
Emacs shows empty boxes.

An instance of GNU Emacs 20.7 shows Hindi fonts.

      Debian `testing' distribution, updated today.

      Today's CVS snapshot, Tue, 2003 Feb 11  17:29 UTC
      GNU Emacs 21.3.50.137 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit)
      started with

         /usr/local/bin/emacs -q --no-site-file --eval '(blink-cursor-mode 0)'

Following the instructions in the NEWS file:

    See the INSTALL file for information on installing extra libraries
    and fonts to take advantage of the new graphical features and
    extra charsets in this release.

I looked for the intlfonts distribution, which can be obtained by FTP
from ftp.gnu.org.  However, I already have the latest intlfonts
version, 1.2; and besides the NEWS file also says:

    ** Leim is now part of the Emacs distribution.
    You no longer need to download a separate tarball in order to build
    Emacs with Leim.

Also, I tried commenting out the contents of tamil.el, and rebuilding
with a `make bootstrap' command rather than a `make recompile'
command, but that did not restore the fonts.

On running `C-u C-x =' (what-cursor-position with a prefix arg)
on the first of the Tamil characters in the HELLO buffer:

Tamil (^[$,1<D<N<_<T<m^[(B)		^[$,1<U<C<5<m<5<N<m^[(B

where the non-Latin characters in the above line are empty boxes, 

I see, where the non-Latin character after the colon on the first line
below is also an empty box:


    character: ^[$,1<D^[(B (01217104, 335428, 0x51e44)
      charset: mule-unicode-0100-24ff
               (Unicode characters of the range U+0100..U+24FF.)
   code point: 60 68
       syntax: w 	which means: word
     category:
  buffer code: 0x9C 0xF4 0xBC 0xC4
    file code: ESC 24 2C 31 3C 44 (encoded by coding system iso-2022-7bit-unix)
      Unicode: 0BA4
         font: -ETL-Fixed-Medium-R-Normal--16-160-72-72-C-80-ISO10646-1

  Composed with the following character(s) `' to form `^[$,1<D^[(B'
  by the rule (?^[$,4*N^[(B).
  See the variable `reference-point-alist' for the meaning of the rule.

  There are text properties here:
    composition          (11 1
      [267598])

I tried various fonts and fontsets using the `mouse-set-font'
(SHIFT-mouse-1) command; the empty boxes remained.

Finally, I tried setting the coding system with the command

    set-buffer-file-coding-system   (C-x RET f)

both to utf-8 and to iso-2022-7bit; neither had any effect.


In my /etc/X11/XF86Config-4, I have the following:

  Section "Files"

          # Uncommenting the "unix/:7100" line leads to wider default fonts
          FontPath	"unix/:7100"	# for xfs, but xfs-xtt is newer
          FontPath      "unix/:7101"    # for xfs-xtt -- load both

          # If the local font server has problems, we can fall back on these
          FontPath	"/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1"
          FontPath	"/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo"
          FontPath	"/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi"
          FontPath	"/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi"
          FontPath	"/usr/local/share/emacs/fonts/"
          FontPath	"/usr/local/share/emacs/fonts/bdf"
          FontPath	"/usr/local/src/intlfonts/European"
          FontPath	"/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc"
          FontPath	"/usr/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic"
  EndSection

What should I do?

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         Rattlesnake Enterprises
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.teak.cc                             bob@rattlesnake.com

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <m18ieiT-000IeGC@localhost>, "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:
> The HELLO buffer no longer shows Hindi and does not show Tamil fonts.

Please see the section "* Extra fonts" of INSTALL.  It has
this information.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
The new Indian implementation uses the ISFOC standard fonts.  We use
CDAC ISFOC fonts to display the Devanagari script in Emacs.  They are
copyrighted, but we received permission to use them in Emacs from the
font developers.  These fonts can be obtained from the internet, or
may be found in C-DAC products (including downloadable ones).  For
examle, you can search the CDAC Devanagari font `dvsr0ntt.ttf' by
using some search engines and they will guide you to appropriate URLs
to obtain them.

After you've downloaded the fonts, then run the following Makefile
to create the appropriate BDF/PCF fonts.  (You will need `ttf2bdf',
equipped with freetype 1, to create BDF file.)

TTFS=	asdr0ntt.ttf:Assamese\
	bndr0ntt.ttf:Bengali\
	dvsr0ntt.ttf:Devanagari\
	gjav0ntt.ttf:Gujarati\
	knum0ntt.ttf:Kannada\
	mlkr0ntt.ttf:Malayalam\
	orsr0ntt.ttf:Oriya\
	pnam0ntt.ttf:Punjabi\
	sdsr0ntt.ttf:Sanskrit\
	tlhm0ntt.ttf:Telugu\
	tmvl0ntt.ttf:Tamil

all:
	for f in ${TTFS}; do \
	  ttf=`echo $$f | sed 's/:.*$$//'`; \
	  reg=`echo $$f | sed 's/[^:]*://'`; \
	  base=`basename $$ttf .ttf`; \
	  echo Converting "$$ttf to $$base-XX.bdf/pcf with registry $$reg"; \
	  for i in 16 24; do \
	    ttf2bdf -p $${i} -r 100 -l 0_255 $$ttf > temp; \
	    sed "/^FONT /s/ISO10646-1/$$reg-CDAC/" <temp >$$base-$$i.bdf; \
	    bdftopcf $$base-$$i.bdf > $$base-$$i.pcf; \
	  done; \
	done
	rm -f temp

clean:
	rm -f *.pcf *.bdf

----------------------------------------------------------------------

If your X server supports TrueType fonts directly
(e.g. XFree86 4.0 and the later), instead of making pcf
fonts, you can directly put *.ttf in your fontpath for
TrueType fonts, add these lines in fonts.dir,

tmvl0ntt.ttf -altsys-TM_TTValluvar-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-tamil-cdac
tlhm0ntt.ttf -altsys-TL_TTHemalatha-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-telugu-cdac
sdsr0ntt.ttf -altsys-SD_TTSurekh-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-sanskrit-cdac
pnam0ntt.ttf -altsys-PN_TTAmar-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-punjabi-cdac
orsr0ntt.ttf -altsys-OR_TTSarala-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-oriya-cdac
mlkr0ntt.ttf -altsys-ML_TTKarthika-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-malayalam-cdac
knum0ntt.ttf -altsys-KN_TTUma-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-kannada-cdac
gjav0ntt.ttf -altsys-GJ_TTAvantika-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-gujarati-cdac
dvsr0ntt.ttf -altsys-DV_TTSurekh-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-devanagari-cdac
bndr0ntt.ttf -altsys-BN_TTDurga-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-bengali-cdac
asdr0ntt.ttf -altsys-AS_TTDurga-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-assamese-cdac

then run "% xset fp rehash".

---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Robert J. Chassell]

    The new Indian implementation uses the ISFOC standard fonts.

Please include them in the CVS so that when I do the update, I get
them.  The fonts are going to become part of the distribution anyhow,
so you might as well see how well they work by putting them into CVS.

Thank you.

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         Rattlesnake Enterprises
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.teak.cc                             bob@rattlesnake.com

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Jason Rumney]

"Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:

> The fonts are going to become part of the distribution anyhow,

Are they?  This seems excessive.  We have never distributed fonts
with Emacs before, and we've already doubled its size for the next
major release by including leim and the elisp docs in the main
distribution.

It is not sufficient to distribute the fonts with Emacs anyway, they
have to be installed in the font-path, and I'm not sure we can find a
way to do that on all systems (the font server may be on another
machine for example).

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Robert J. Chassell]

Still no success.

   "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:

   > The fonts are going to become part of the distribution anyhow,

   Are they?

My misunderstanding.  I misread the documentation to mean that I no
longer had to do something extra to get fonts to work on a more or
less standard GNU/Linux system.

In /usr/local/src/emacs/INSTALL, after the header line that says, 
`* Extra fonts', it would be helpful to tell the reader that

    GNU Emacs does not include fonts and does not install them.  You must
    do this yourself. 

This would help prevent the kind of mistake I made.

In any event, I followed the advice that Kenichi Handa
<handa@m17n.org> gave, and followed the instructions in

    /usr/local/src/emacs/INSTALL

Even after following those instructions (as I understood them),
neither the Hindi nor the Tamil fonts are shown, although a Hindi font
is displayed in an instance of GNU Emacs 20.

The instructions in INSTALL presume the reader understands quite a bit
about fonts.  I don't.  But, as far as I can tell, I followed the
instructions correctly.  But I still don't see the Hindi or Tamil
fonts

Here is what I did.

I wrote this text in the third person so that you could include the
good parts of this in INSTALL immediated after the example makefile.
Something like this is needed, so long as it presents an example that
succeeds.  This particular text, sad to say, describes procedures that
fail.

    For     .....emacs/INSTALL
    following line 214

/----------------

For example, Robert J. Chassell downloaded the following TTF files
from    http://www.gitasupersite.iitk.ac.in/installfont.htm
to the /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/ttf-font-dir/ directory:

    Asdr0ntt.TTF
    BNDR0ntt.ttf
    DVYG0ntt.ttf
    DVYG1ntt.ttf
    GJAV0ntt.ttf
    KNUM0ntt.ttf
    MLKR0ntt.ttf
    ORSR0ntt.ttf
    PNAM0ntt.ttf
    TLHM0ntt.ttf
    TMVL0ntt.ttf

He then downloaded the latest stable FreeType distribution from
http://www.freetype.org; that is to say, he downloaded

    http://unc.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/freetype/freetype-1.3.1.tar.gz
    1394 kb

He unpacked FreeType and built it:    ./configure && time make

Then, to build `ttf2bdf', he went into the  freetype-1.3.1/contrib/ttf2bdf/
directory and built that:    ./configure && time make

(He then copied the `ttf2bdf' executable to the `/usr/local/bin/'
directory for convenience.)

In the /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/ttf-font-dir/ directory, he
downcased the names of the *.ttf files and included them in the
makefile to convert to the appropriate BDF/PCF fonts.  Note that the
font files he downloaded are somewhat different from those listed
above.

He created the following makefile,
/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/ttf-font-dir/convert2bdf-pcf
with this contents:

TTFS=	asdr0ntt.ttf:Assamese\
        bndr0ntt.ttf:Bengali\
        dvyg0ntt.ttf:Devanagari\
        dvyg1ntt.ttf:Roman\
        gjav0ntt.ttf:Gujarati\
        knum0ntt.ttf:Kannada\
        mlkr0ntt.ttf:Malayalam\
        orsr0ntt.ttf:Oriya\
        pnam0ntt.ttf:Punjabi\
        tlhm0ntt.ttf:Telugu\
        tmvl0ntt.ttf:Tamil\

all:
	for f in ${TTFS}; do \
	  ttf=`echo $$f | sed 's/:.*$$//'`; \
	  reg=`echo $$f | sed 's/[^:]*://'`; \
	  base=`basename $$ttf .ttf`; \
	  echo Converting "$$ttf to $$base-XX.bdf/pcf with registry $$reg"; \
	  for i in 16 24; do \
	    ttf2bdf -p $${i} -r 100 -l 0_255 $$ttf > temp; \
	    sed "/^FONT /s/ISO10646-1/$$reg-CDAC/" <temp >$$base-$$i.bdf; \
	    bdftopcf $$base-$$i.bdf > $$base-$$i.pcf; \
	  done; \
	done
	rm -f temp

clean:
	rm -f *.pcf *.bdf

### end makefile


Then he ran the command:

    make -f convert2bdf-pcf

and it converts the .ttf files to .bdf and .pcf.

He put the PCF fonts into the /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/
directory with the command:   mv *.pcf ..

Then he used the `xset' command to install the fonts

     xset fp+ /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/
     xset fp rehash

----------------/


==> But GNU Emacs 21 still did not show the Hindi and Tamil fonts,
using today's GNU Emacs CVS snapshot and today's Debian `testing'
distribution of GNU/Linux.  (I also rebooted the laptop, but that did
no good either.)

What should I do?

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         Rattlesnake Enterprises
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.teak.cc                             bob@rattlesnake.com

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Jason Rumney]

Since debian includes Freetype2 and XFree-4.2, you could probably use
the truetype fonts directly (for display, BDF is still needed for
printing) without first converting them to pcf.

I'm not sure if that would be any more likely to succeed though.

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Robert J. Chassell]

   Since debian includes Freetype2 and XFree-4.2, you could probably use
   the truetype fonts directly (for display, BDF is still needed for
   printing) without first converting them to pcf.

Thanks, although it did not help.

I found that `freetype2 is already the newest version', but that of
the `xfree.*' packages, I needed to install:

    t1-xfree86-nonfree ttf-xfree86-nonfree xserver-xfree86-dbg 

which I did.  

Unfortunately, even after installing the `xfree.*' packages, Emacs 21
still fails to display Hindi and Tamil in the HELLO file, although an
instance of Emacs 20 displays Hindi.

(I tested the two versions of Emacs in a new X session after running
the xset commands.)

More suggestions?

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         Rattlesnake Enterprises
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.teak.cc                             bob@rattlesnake.com

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Raja R Harinath]

Hi,

"Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:

> Then he used the `xset' command to install the fonts
>
>      xset fp+ /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/
>      xset fp rehash
>
> ----------------/
>
> ==> But GNU Emacs 21 still did not show the Hindi and Tamil fonts,
> using today's GNU Emacs CVS snapshot and today's Debian `testing'
> distribution of GNU/Linux.  (I also rebooted the laptop, but that did
> no good either.)
>
> What should I do?

I have the following in my .emacs

    (let ((current-fontset (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))))
      (when current-fontset
	(load-library "quail/indian")

	(set-fontset-font current-fontset
			  (cons (decode-char 'ucs ?\x0900) 
				(decode-char 'ucs ?\x097f))
			  (cons "*" "iso10646.indian-1"))
	
	(mapc
	 (lambda (lsym)
	   (set-fontset-font current-fontset
			     (cons (indian-glyph-char 0 lsym)
				   (indian-glyph-char 255 lsym))
			     (cons "*" (concat (symbol-name lsym) "-cdac"))))
	 indian-script-table)))

and I have the following in my .Xdefaults:

  Emacs.Fontset-0: -adobe-courier-medium-r-normal-*-14-*-*-*-m-*-fontset-courier,\
          mule-unicode-0100-24ff:-gnu-unifont-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1,\
          mule-unicode-2500-33ff:-gnu-unifont-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1,\
          mule-unicode-e000-ffff:-gnu-unifont-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1

  Emacs.Font: fontset-courier

If you use 'fontset-default', then you probably don't need this.

HTH.
- Hari
-- 
Raja R Harinath ------------------------------ harinath@cs.umn.edu

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Robert J. Chassell]

Handa-san's suggestion, involving the `mkfontdir' command, worked so I
have not tried yours.  (I have appended yours to remind people which
it is.)

Which suggestion would be better in the long run?  

I do not understand fonts or fontsets to make a choice.

Indeed, I do not know the default fontset for my regular instance of
Emacs.

The Info chapters, (emacs)Fontsets, do not help me since they assume I
understand more than I do.  I don't even know what questions to ask.

For example, I start my regular Emacs under GDB with the command:

    run -q -l ~bob/.emacs-21 -bg darkblue -fg white \
        -fn '-Misc-Fixed-Medium-R-Normal--20-200-75-75-C-100-ISO8859-1' \
        -geometry 80x52+120+45 \
        -name 'GNU Emacs 21'

The `frame-parameters' function tells me    (font . "10x20"))
No `fontset-startup' or `fontset-default'.  Evidentally, the `-fn'
argument does not define one.  Moreover

    (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))

returns nil in my regular Emacs.  Am I right in thinking I have no
default or startup fontset?

(On the other land, in a plain vanilla Emacs, started under GDB with
the command:

    run -q --no-site-file --eval '(blink-cursor-mode 0)'

the `query-fontset' expression returns
"-etl-*-medium-r-normal-*-16-*-*-*-*-*-fontset-16".  Does this mean
that its default fontset is "fontset-16"?)



Here is what you wrote.  Am I right in thinking that since I do not
use `Emacs.Font: fontset-courier' and do not want it, I do not need
the following?  Is there any reason to put the Emacs Lisp expression
into my .emacs file?

Your suggestion:


   I have the following in my .emacs

       (let ((current-fontset (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))))
         (when current-fontset
           (load-library "quail/indian")

           (set-fontset-font current-fontset
                             (cons (decode-char 'ucs ?\x0900) 
                                   (decode-char 'ucs ?\x097f))
                             (cons "*" "iso10646.indian-1"))

           (mapc
            (lambda (lsym)
              (set-fontset-font current-fontset
                                (cons (indian-glyph-char 0 lsym)
                                      (indian-glyph-char 255 lsym))
                                (cons "*" (concat (symbol-name lsym) "-cdac"))))
            indian-script-table)))

   and I have the following in my .Xdefaults:

   Emacs.Fontset-0: -adobe-courier-medium-r-normal-*-14-*-*-*-m-*-fontset-courier,\
           mule-unicode-0100-24ff:-gnu-unifont-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1,\
           mule-unicode-2500-33ff:-gnu-unifont-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1,\
           mule-unicode-e000-ffff:-gnu-unifont-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-iso10646-1

     Emacs.Font: fontset-courier

   If you use 'fontset-default', then you probably don't need this.


Thanks!

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         Rattlesnake Enterprises
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.teak.cc                             bob@rattlesnake.com

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Raja R Harinath]

Hi,

"Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:

> Handa-san's suggestion, involving the `mkfontdir' command, worked so I
> have not tried yours.  (I have appended yours to remind people which
> it is.)

I assumed that your fonts were setup completely.  I missed that you
didn't have 'mkfontdir' there.  

> Which suggestion would be better in the long run?  

My suggestion is subordinate :-)  You can't do anything useful
without the 'mkfontdir'.

> For example, I start my regular Emacs under GDB with the command:
>
>     run -q -l ~bob/.emacs-21 -bg darkblue -fg white \
>         -fn '-Misc-Fixed-Medium-R-Normal--20-200-75-75-C-100-ISO8859-1' \
>         -geometry 80x52+120+45 \
>         -name 'GNU Emacs 21'
>
> The `frame-parameters' function tells me    (font . "10x20"))
> No `fontset-startup' or `fontset-default'.  Evidentally, the `-fn'
> argument does not define one.  Moreover
>
>     (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))
>
> returns nil in my regular Emacs.  Am I right in thinking I have no
> default or startup fontset?

I think so.  I don't know how this works, either.

> (On the other land, in a plain vanilla Emacs, started under GDB with
> the command:
>
>     run -q --no-site-file --eval '(blink-cursor-mode 0)'
>
> the `query-fontset' expression returns
> "-etl-*-medium-r-normal-*-16-*-*-*-*-*-fontset-16".  Does this mean
> that its default fontset is "fontset-16"?)

Looks like it.  In emacs from CVS, I think it is 'fontset-default'.
That fontset is the only one that appears to be prepared to show
tamil/telugu/kannada/... once the corresponding lng-util.el is
written.

>        (let ((current-fontset (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))))
>          (when current-fontset
>            (load-library "quail/indian")
>
>            (set-fontset-font current-fontset
>                              (cons (decode-char 'ucs ?\x0900) 
>                                    (decode-char 'ucs ?\x097f))
>                              (cons "*" "iso10646.indian-1"))
>
>            (mapc
>             (lambda (lsym)
>               (set-fontset-font current-fontset
>                                 (cons (indian-glyph-char 0 lsym)
>                                       (indian-glyph-char 255 lsym))
>                                 (cons "*" (concat (symbol-name lsym) "-cdac"))))
>             indian-script-table)))

This code parallels 'setup-fontset-default' in international/fontset.el.
These glyphsets are not listed in 'x-font-name-charset-alist' and
so aren't setup for all fontsets.

- Hari
-- 
Raja R Harinath ------------------------------ harinath@cs.umn.edu

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <m18j1Ru-000IeAC@localhost>, "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:
> In /usr/local/src/emacs/INSTALL, after the header line that says, 
> `* Extra fonts', it would be helpful to tell the reader that

>     GNU Emacs does not include fonts and does not install them.  You must
>     do this yourself. 

Thank you for the suggestion.  I added the following.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
At first, Emacs does not include fonts and does not install them.  You
must do this yourself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

> Here is what I did.
[...]
> He put the PCF fonts into the /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/
> directory with the command:   mv *.pcf ..

> Then he used the `xset' command to install the fonts

>      xset fp+ /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/
>      xset fp rehash

You must do "mkfontdir" in the directory
/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/ before "xset fp+".

Once you've done that correctly, please check if the fonts
are surely avairable to Emacs by:
% xlsfonts -fn '*-cdac'

"Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:
>    Since debian includes Freetype2 and XFree-4.2, you could probably use
>    the truetype fonts directly (for display, BDF is still needed for
>    printing) without first converting them to pcf.

> Thanks, although it did not help.

> I found that `freetype2 is already the newest version', but that of
> the `xfree.*' packages, I needed to install:

>     t1-xfree86-nonfree ttf-xfree86-nonfree xserver-xfree86-dbg 

> which I did.  

> Unfortunately, even after installing the `xfree.*' packages, Emacs 21
> still fails to display Hindi and Tamil in the HELLO file, although an
> instance of Emacs 20 displays Hindi.

Where did you put your the *.ttf files?  If the TrueType
font installation is successful, you should be able to see
font glyphs by this command:

% xfd -fn -altsys-DV_TTSurekh-medium-r-normal--20-0-0-0-p-0-devanagari-cdac

---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Robert J. Chassell]

Thank you!  Success!  At least success in showing Hindi and Tamil
fonts in the HELLO buffer after running the `mkfontdir' command,
followed again by the `xset' commands.    (I have revised my `example'
text and appended it below.)

However, I was not able to see any fonts glyphs with the `xfd'
command on the `cdac' font.  This command:

   xfd -fn -altsys-DV_TTSurekh-medium-r-normal--20-0-0-0-p-0-devanagari-cdac

gave me this error message:

    Warning: Cannot convert string
    "-altsys-DV_TTSurekh-medium-r-normal--20-0-0-0-p-0-devanagari-cdac" to
    type FontStruct
    xfd:  no font to display

But I do see glyphs with the following command:

   xfd -fn *-cdac

This shows me the glyphs for

    TTDurga-Medium-R-Normal--22-160-100-100-P-74-Assamese-CDAC

However, the command 

   xfd -fn TTDurga-Medium-R-Normal--22-160-100-100-P-74-Assamese-CDAC

fails.

(I moved my *.ttf and *.bdf files to the
/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/ directory, along with the *.pcf files.)



As for the success:

Here is text for .....emacs/INSTALL that describes what I did that is
successful.  I added text about using "mkfontdir" and "xlsfonts -fn '*-cdac'"


    For     .....emacs/INSTALL
    following the end of the sample Indian fonts makefile

/----------------

For example, Robert J. Chassell downloaded the following TTF files
from    http://www.gitasupersite.iitk.ac.in/installfont.htm
to the /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/ttf-font-dir/ directory:

    Asdr0ntt.TTF
    BNDR0ntt.ttf
    DVYG0ntt.ttf
    DVYG1ntt.ttf
    GJAV0ntt.ttf
    KNUM0ntt.ttf
    MLKR0ntt.ttf
    ORSR0ntt.ttf
    PNAM0ntt.ttf
    TLHM0ntt.ttf
    TMVL0ntt.ttf

He then downloaded the latest stable FreeType distribution from
http://www.freetype.org; that is to say, he downloaded

    http://unc.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/freetype/freetype-1.3.1.tar.gz
    1394 kb

He unpacked FreeType and built it:    ./configure && time make

Then, to build `ttf2bdf', he went into the  freetype-1.3.1/contrib/ttf2bdf/
directory and built that:    ./configure && time make

(He then copied the `ttf2bdf' executable to the `/usr/local/bin/'
directory for convenience.)

In the /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/ttf-font-dir/ directory, he
downcased the names of the *.ttf files and included them in the
makefile to convert to the appropriate BDF/PCF fonts.  Note that the
font files he downloaded are somewhat different from those listed
above.

He created the following makefile,
/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/ttf-font-dir/convert2bdf-pcf
with this contents:

TTFS=	asdr0ntt.ttf:Assamese\
        bndr0ntt.ttf:Bengali\
        dvyg0ntt.ttf:Devanagari\
        dvyg1ntt.ttf:Roman\
        gjav0ntt.ttf:Gujarati\
        knum0ntt.ttf:Kannada\
        mlkr0ntt.ttf:Malayalam\
        orsr0ntt.ttf:Oriya\
        pnam0ntt.ttf:Punjabi\
        tlhm0ntt.ttf:Telugu\
        tmvl0ntt.ttf:Tamil\

all:
	for f in ${TTFS}; do \
	  ttf=`echo $$f | sed 's/:.*$$//'`; \
	  reg=`echo $$f | sed 's/[^:]*://'`; \
	  base=`basename $$ttf .ttf`; \
	  echo Converting "$$ttf to $$base-XX.bdf/pcf with registry $$reg"; \
	  for i in 16 24; do \
	    ttf2bdf -p $${i} -r 100 -l 0_255 $$ttf > temp; \
	    sed "/^FONT /s/ISO10646-1/$$reg-CDAC/" <temp >$$base-$$i.bdf; \
	    bdftopcf $$base-$$i.bdf > $$base-$$i.pcf; \
	  done; \
	done
	rm -f temp

clean:
	rm -f *.pcf *.bdf

### end makefile


Then he ran the command:

    make -f convert2bdf-pcf

and it converts the .ttf files to .bdf and .pcf.

He moved all the fonts into the /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/
directory with the commands:

    mv *.pcf ..
    mv *.bdf ..
    mv *.ttf ..

Then he used the `mkfontdir' and `xset' commands to install the fonts

    mkfontdir
    xset fp+ /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/
    xset fp rehash

He confirmed that the fonts are available to Emacs with this command:

     xlsfonts -fn '*-cdac'

and was able to see all of them by starting a fresh instance of GNU
Emacs and typing `C-h h' (view-hello-file)

----------------/

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         Rattlesnake Enterprises
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.teak.cc                             bob@rattlesnake.com

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <m18j8Qi-000IeAC@localhost>, "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:
> Thank you!  Success!

That's good!

> At least success in showing Hindi and Tamil fonts in the
> HELLO buffer after running the `mkfontdir' command,
> followed again by the `xset' commands.  (I have revised my
> `example' text and appended it below.)

Thank you.  I'll try to reflect that info in INSTALL.

> However, I was not able to see any fonts glyphs with the `xfd'
> command on the `cdac' font.  This command:
>    xfd -fn -altsys-DV_TTSurekh-medium-r-normal--20-0-0-0-p-0-devanagari-cdac

Ah, that is for the case that you use *.ttf directly with
the support of TrueType fonts on X server side.

> But I do see glyphs with the following command:
>    xfd -fn *-cdac
> This shows me the glyphs for
>     TTDurga-Medium-R-Normal--22-160-100-100-P-74-Assamese-CDAC
> However, the command 
>    xfd -fn TTDurga-Medium-R-Normal--22-160-100-100-P-74-Assamese-CDAC
> fails.

The above font name is incomplete (I don't know how you get
that name).  Please use the font names returned by:
   xlsfonts -fn '*-cdac'

Anyway, I'd like to ask you to try the other method too,
i.e. using *.ttf directly.  But, before doing that, please
remove the directory of CDAC PCF fonts from your font path
to avoid unnecessary confusion.

This time, you don't need mkfontdir which is a command to
generate fonts.dir from the directory contents.  Instead,
put these lines in fonts.dir by yourself in the directory of
*.ttf, and "xset fp+ ...".

--- cut here ---------------------------------------------------------
11
tmvl0ntt.ttf -altsys-TM_TTValluvar-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-tamil-cdac
tlhm0ntt.ttf -altsys-TL_TTHemalatha-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-telugu-cdac
sdsr0ntt.ttf -altsys-SD_TTSurekh-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-sanskrit-cdac
pnam0ntt.ttf -altsys-PN_TTAmar-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-punjabi-cdac
orsr0ntt.ttf -altsys-OR_TTSarala-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-oriya-cdac
mlkr0ntt.ttf -altsys-ML_TTKarthika-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-malayalam-cdac
knum0ntt.ttf -altsys-KN_TTUma-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-kannada-cdac
gjav0ntt.ttf -altsys-GJ_TTAvantika-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-gujarati-cdac
dvsr0ntt.ttf -altsys-DV_TTSurekh-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-devanagari-cdac
bndr0ntt.ttf -altsys-BN_TTDurga-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-bengali-cdac
asdr0ntt.ttf -altsys-AS_TTDurga-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-assamese-cdac
--- cut here ---------------------------------------------------------

> (I moved my *.ttf and *.bdf files to the
> /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/ directory, along with the *.pcf files.)

It's not a good idea to have *.ttf and *.pcf in the same
directory.  Please put *.ttf in its own directory (say,
/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/cdac).

---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Robert J. Chassell]

    Anyway, I'd like to ask you to try the other method too,
    i.e. using *.ttf directly.  ....

Failure.  

    This time, you don't need mkfontdir which is a command to
    generate fonts.dir from the directory contents.  Instead,
    put these lines in fonts.dir by yourself in the directory of
    *.ttf, and "xset fp+ ...".

OK, I did that.  I moved the *.ttf files to ../cdac, put the lines
your suggested into a ../cdac/fonts.dir file, and reran the 
"xset fp+ ..." and "xset fp rehash" commands.

However, you also ask:

    .... But, before doing that, please remove the directory of CDAC
    PCF fonts from your font path to avoid unnecessary confusion.

I am not sure whether I did right. 
My /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file contains the following:

Section "Files"

        # Uncommenting the "unix/:7100" line leads to wider default fonts
 	FontPath	"unix/:7100"	# for xfs, but xfs-xtt is newer
        FontPath        "unix/:7101"    # for xfs-xtt -- evidentally, load both

 	# If the local font server has problems, we can fall back on these
 	FontPath	"/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1"
 	FontPath	"/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo"
 	FontPath	"/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi"
 	FontPath	"/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi"
	FontPath	"/usr/local/share/emacs/fonts/"
	FontPath	"/usr/local/share/emacs/fonts/bdf"
	FontPath	"/usr/local/src/intlfonts/European"
 	FontPath	"/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc"
 	FontPath	"/usr/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic"
EndSection

I commented out the 

 	FontPath	"/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc"

line and then started a new X session.

Empty boxes appeared in the HELLO file for Hindi and Tamil.

However, when I put that line back into my /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file,
and started another X session again, the Hindi and Tamil glyphs
appeared again.

So my understanding is that I am only seeing the Hindi and Tamil
glyphs because of the *.pcf or *.bdf files in
/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc/.

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         Rattlesnake Enterprises
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.teak.cc                             bob@rattlesnake.com

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Richard Stallman]

    The new Indian implementation uses the ISFOC standard fonts.  We use
    CDAC ISFOC fonts to display the Devanagari script in Emacs.  They are
    copyrighted,

Being copyrighted is not a problen--Emacs is also copyrighted.  The
issue is, is it released under a free software license?

		 but we received permission to use them in Emacs from the
    font developers.

Special permission to use something "in Emacs" or "with Emacs"
is usually NOT sufficient.  In order for us to use anything, we
have to be able to distribute it under a free software license.

Would you please show me the license of these fonts?  I can check if
it is a free software license.  If these are not free, we cannot use
them in Emacs or recommend them to Emacs users.

Also, what is ISFOC?  Is it in India?  Can you tell me how to contact
the people there?  I am on the way to India now, and if these are not
free, I may be able to convince them to make them free.

We may have to convert the code in Emacs to work with whatever
free fonts are available.  How quickly can you do that?

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <E18j3ZC-00056E-00@fencepost.gnu.org>, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>     The new Indian implementation uses the ISFOC standard fonts.  We use
>     CDAC ISFOC fonts to display the Devanagari script in Emacs.  They are
>     copyrighted,

> Being copyrighted is not a problen--Emacs is also copyrighted.  The
> issue is, is it released under a free software license?

> 		 but we received permission to use them in Emacs from the
>     font developers.

> Special permission to use something "in Emacs" or "with Emacs"
> is usually NOT sufficient.  In order for us to use anything, we
> have to be able to distribute it under a free software license.

> Would you please show me the license of these fonts?  I can check if
> it is a free software license.  If these are not free, we cannot use
> them in Emacs or recommend them to Emacs users.

> Also, what is ISFOC?  Is it in India?  Can you tell me how to contact
> the people there?  I am on the way to India now, and if these are not
> free, I may be able to convince them to make them free.

Kawabata-san <batta@beige.ocn.ne.jp>, please explain about
these issues.

> We may have to convert the code in Emacs to work with whatever
> free fonts are available.  How quickly can you do that?

As far as I know, pango contains bdf fonts for Indic
scripts.  Kawabata-san can support those fonts within 10
days if he has a time to work on it.

Another way is to use surely free OTF fonts (e.g. raghu.ttf
for devanagari), but for that, we must use freetype library
for rendering <http://freetype.sourceforge.net/index2.html>.
Do you think it's ok to link that library with Emacs?
Anyway, that requires a big work.

---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Richard Stallman]

    > Would you please show me the license of these fonts?  I can check if
    > it is a free software license.  If these are not free, we cannot use
    > them in Emacs or recommend them to Emacs users.

    > Also, what is ISFOC?  Is it in India?  Can you tell me how to contact
    > the people there?  I am on the way to India now, and if these are not
    > free, I may be able to convince them to make them free.

    Kawabata-san <batta@beige.ocn.ne.jp>, please explain about
    these issues.

This is really the crucial information.  If these licenses are free,
then we have no problem.  There is no need to work on replacing them
if they are ok to use.

On the other hand, if these licenses are NOT free, and if ISFOC is in
India, and if I can meet with them while I am here, maybe I can do
some good.

I need the info ASAP, since I am travelling around India and we don't
know which city they are in.

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Raja R Harinath]

Hi,

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     > Would you please show me the license of these fonts?  I can check if
>     > it is a free software license.  If these are not free, we cannot use
>     > them in Emacs or recommend them to Emacs users.
>
>     > Also, what is ISFOC?  Is it in India?  Can you tell me how to contact
>     > the people there?  I am on the way to India now, and if these are not
>     > free, I may be able to convince them to make them free.
>
>     Kawabata-san <batta@beige.ocn.ne.jp>, please explain about
>     these issues.
>
> This is really the crucial information.  If these licenses are free,
> then we have no problem.  There is no need to work on replacing them
> if they are ok to use.
>
> On the other hand, if these licenses are NOT free, and if ISFOC is in
> India, and if I can meet with them while I am here, maybe I can do
> some good.

ISFOC is a standard from C-DAC (http://cdacindia.com).

  http://www.cdacindia.com/html/gist/standard/isfoc.asp

ISFOC is a glyph-based standard, rather than a character-based
standard -- thus side-stepping the various rendering issues discussed
in the Unicode standard.  The idea essentially is to avoid the
huge-ligature-table problem in rendering Unicode encoded fonts, but
instead standardize on a fixed set of pre-rendered glyph-pieces.

This appears to be a custom solution and needs special case code like
in devan-util.el, tamil-util.el to compose unicode characters by
translation to sequences of ISFOC glyphs.

- Hari
-- 
Raja R Harinath ------------------------------ harinath@cs.umn.edu

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <E18jP18-0000T1-00@fencepost.gnu.org>, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>>  Would you please show me the license of these fonts?  I can check if
>>  it is a free software license.  If these are not free, we cannot use
>>  them in Emacs or recommend them to Emacs users.

>>  Also, what is ISFOC?  Is it in India?  Can you tell me how to contact
>>  the people there?  I am on the way to India now, and if these are not
>>  free, I may be able to convince them to make them free.

>     Kawabata-san <batta@beige.ocn.ne.jp>, please explain about
>     these issues.

> This is really the crucial information.  If these licenses are free,
> then we have no problem.  There is no need to work on replacing them
> if they are ok to use.

> On the other hand, if these licenses are NOT free, and if ISFOC is in
> India, and if I can meet with them while I am here, maybe I can do
> some good.

> I need the info ASAP, since I am travelling around India and we don't
> know which city they are in.

ISFOC is a kind of font encoding standard that the company
CDAC proposed.   The fonts themselves are created by CDAC.

Kawabata-san told me that he got a permission to use their
fonts with Emacs by E-mail.  I don't remember the exact
statement of the mail.

This web page shows how to concact with CDAC people.
	http://www.cdacindia.com/html/contact/offices.asp

Here's a copy of it.   Their fonts contain this information.

ISFOC-DEVANAGARI-SUREKH-NORMAL. Copyright (c) 1992-95, C-DAC, PUNE, INDIA.

So, perhaps, their center is in Pune.


Pune
----
Centre for Development of Advanced Computing,
Pune University Campus,
Ganesh Khind,
Pune - 411 007 India.
Phones: +91-20-569-4000/01/02/03
Fax: +91-20-569-4059
eMail
How to reach C-DAC [MAP]

Bangalore
---------
Centre for Development of Advanced Computing,
C-DAC Knowledge Park
Opp. HAL Aeroengine Division
No. 1, Old Madras Road
Byappanahalli
Bangalore - 560 038 India.
Phones: +91-80-534-1215/534-1909/534-0816/524-4059/524-4136/524-1874
Fax: +91-80-524-7724
eMail
How to reach C-DAC [MAP]

New Delhi
---------
Centre for Development of Advanced Computing,
A-335, Shivalik Near Malviya Nagar,
New Delhi - 110 017 India.
Phones: +91-11-2668-1156/1209/1779/ 2654-8250
Fax: +91-11-2668-1156
eMail
How to reach C-DAC [MAP]

Chennai
-------
Centre for Development of Advanced Computing,
IV Floor, Senthil Towers
A-1, First Avenue
Ashok Nagar 
Chennai - 600 083 India.
Phone: +91-44-371-9326/27
Fax: +91-44-371-9479
eMail
How to reach C-DAC [MAP]

Hyderabad
---------
Centre for Development of Advanced Computing,
2nd Floor, Delta Chambers Ameerpet
Hyderabad - 500 016 India.
Phone: +91-40-2340-1331/332
Fax: +91- 40-2330-1531
eMail
How to reach C-DAC [MAP]

Thiruvananthapuram
------------------
Centre for Development of Advanced Computing,
TC 11/1110,
Pazhaya Road
Murinjapalam,
Medical College P.O.,
Thiruvananthapuram - 695 011 India.
Phone: +91-471-554-681
Fax: +91-471-554-086 
eMail
How to reach C-DAC [MAP]

Kolkata
-------
Centre for Development of Advanced Computing,
C/o- ER&DCI
Plot- E-2/1 (Ground Floor) Sector - 5
Saltlake Electronics Complex
Bidhannagar, Kolkata - 700 091 India.
Phone: +91-33-357-7264
eMail
How to reach C-DAC [MAP]

---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <200302132347.IAA10169@etlken.m17n.org>, Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org> writes:
>>      Kawabata-san <batta@beige.ocn.ne.jp>, please explain about
>>      these issues.

I've got a personal mail from him.  It seems that he is now
extremely busy, and can't dug out the clear permission
documentation.  He at least found the attached mail.  As the
mail date is three year ago, the contacted person Mr. Anupam
Saurabh may not be in CDAC now.

---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org

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Subject: Re: Request for Using ISFOC fonts on UNIX...
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Hello,

You may go ahead and create fonts for use on Linux. Hope adding credits to 
CDAC in copyright strings or in applications would be possible.

Also, would like to bring to your notice that a group in Hyderabad has also 
developed solution on Linux. I will inform them and interaction between the 
two may help.

Regds

Anupam

>From: kawabata@exa.onlab.ntt.co.jp (KAWABATA, Taichi)
>To: Anupam Saurabh <anupamsaurabh@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Request for Using ISFOC fonts on UNIX...
>Date: 08 Dec 1999 09:18:52 +0900
>
>Dear sir,
>
>Thank you very much for your prompt reply.
>
>As I've read your page in
>http://www.cdac.org.in/html/gist/multihom.htm, I recognize that it
>would be difficult to modify the fonts you are distributing for use
>with Unix.
>
>If possible, we would like to do the following to if you kindly
>supports us to use the fonts for Linux.
>
>   1. Convert the TTF fonts to BDF using FreeType software.
>
>   2. Modify the bounding box of the fonts, since X Window system can
>      not handle zero-width fonts.
>
>   3. Introduce the "vertical center line" property into the BDF Font
>      property, so that modifier which attaches to the consonants
>      vertically such as matra "e" and preceding "r" can be property
>      attached just above the vertical line of the consonants even if
>      the consonants are "k" or "t".
>
>   4. Pre-compose several glyphs from the fonts and creates new fonts,
>      to create Unicode fonts.
>
>In Emacs version 21, the internal character codes and their apperance
>glyphs can be completely separated.  We are thinking to make the
>internal represenatation of Indian text as Unicode and visual
>representation of them ISFOC fonts.
>
>Cordially yours,
>
>--
>-------------------------------------------
>KAWABATA, Taichi
>NTT Network Innovation Laboratories
>Tel. +81-468-59-8352   Fax. +81-468-55-1284
>-------------------------------------------
>

______________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:57:23 +0530 (IST)
From: Anupam Saurabh <anupam@cdac.ernet.in>
To: kawabata@exa.onlab.ntt.co.jp
Cc: wrd@doe.ernet.in, sangal@anu.uohyd.ernet.in
Subject: Re: Jap support
In-Reply-To: <199803232123.CAA18460@anu.uohyd.ernet.in>
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Hello,

We have been told that you are an independent developer doing development 
for Indian scripts under EMACS. We understand that you require a 
Devanagari font for use under General Public License. We request you to 
provide your complete postal,Phone/Fax address for our reference.

We suggest that you use the DV-SUREKH-Normal True-type font which you can 
download with LEAP-Lite from our Web-site, for this purpose. It would be 
our pleasure to see your contributions in this common area of interest. 
You'll be free to distribute your software alongwith our font for this 
free distribution under GPL.

If you need any further assistance please do not hesistate to contact us.

With best regards

Anupam Saurabh
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anupam Saurabh                                Email: anupam@cdac.ernet.in
Group Co-ordinator GIST R&D, C-DAC            Phone: +91-212-370034, 352461
Centre for Development of Advanced Computing  URL  : http://www.cdac.org.in
Pune University Campus, Pune-411007, India    Fax  : +91-212-357551
* Download Free LEAP-Lite from our Web Site or sendmail to free@cdac.ernet.in 

On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Rajeev Sangal wrote:
> Anupam,
> 
> I am sending the address of the Japanese devceloper immediately.
> Shortly I will send my comments on your reply.
> 
> > 6. But if some developer incorporates in a free software under GPL, CDAC has 
> > no objections. We would modify the conditions on Web site to suit this 
> > purpose ASAP. You may communicate accordingly to this Jap person.
> > He has not yet written to me. Pls. give his address immly and oblige.
> 
> His address is:
>         kawabata@exa.onlab.ntt.co.jp
> He has provided support for Japanese under EMACS. The entire software
> is under GPL.
> 
>           - Rajeev Sangal
> 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anupam Saurabh                                Email: anupam@cdac.ernet.in
Group Co-ordinator GIST R&D, C-DAC            Phone: +91-212-370034, 352461
Centre for Development of Advanced Computing  URL  : http://www.cdac.org.in
Pune University Campus, Pune-411007, India    Fax  : +91-212-357551
* Download Free LEAP-Lite from our Web Site or sendmail to free@cdac.ernet.in 

No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Robert J. Chassell]

Today's CVS snapshot, Fri, 2003 Feb 14  13:31 UTC
GNU Emacs 21.3.50.146 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit)
started with

     /usr/local/bin/emacs -q --no-site-file --eval '(blink-cursor-mode 0)'

The HELLO file now displays all its glyphs OK, including Hindi and
Tamil; but I see empty boxes when I visit

    emacs/lisp/language/mlm-util.el

This file provides support for composing malayalam characters, which
are Indian.

Ramakrishnan Muthukrishnan <rkrishnan@debian.org> told me about the problem.
He, too, is using CVS.

Ramakrishnan also says that running `C-u C-x =' (what-cursor-position
with a prefix arg)

    on the boxes says that emacs is using some Adobe-*-*... font.

although when I do the same I am told

       font: -ETL-Fixed-Medium-R-Normal--16-160-72-72-C-80-ISO10646-1

According to 

    (shell-command "xlsfonts -fn '*-ISO10646-1'" nil nil)

I have: 

    -etl-fixed-medium-r-normal--16-160-72-72-c-80-iso10646-1

which is the same as the font that `what-cursor-position' tells me is
in mlm-util.el, except for being lower case.

What should I do?

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         Rattlesnake Enterprises
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.teak.cc                             bob@rattlesnake.com

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Raja R Harinath]

Hi,

"Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:

> Today's CVS snapshot, Fri, 2003 Feb 14  13:31 UTC
> GNU Emacs 21.3.50.146 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit)
> started with
>
>      /usr/local/bin/emacs -q --no-site-file --eval '(blink-cursor-mode 0)'
>
> The HELLO file now displays all its glyphs OK, including Hindi and
> Tamil; but I see empty boxes when I visit
>
>     emacs/lisp/language/mlm-util.el
>
> This file provides support for composing malayalam characters, which
> are Indian.

AFAI can make out, the variables 'malayalam-consonant' and the regexp
in 'malayalam-composable-pattern' use Unicode.  You need an Unicode
font that has glyphs in that range.  If your default font doesn't
have the correct stuff, you'll need in your .emacs

  (set-fontset-font (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))
      (cons (decode-char 'ucs ?\x0D00) (decode-char 'ucs ?\x0D7f))
      (cons "monotype-arial unicode ms" "iso10646-1"))

You can use any font that has Malayalam, and has it at the _right_
unicode code points, not some arbitrary encoding.  (Maybe emacs can
handle fonts with ISCII charset tables there.  I don't know.)  The
ISFOC TTF fonts that you already have don't appear to have the right
Unicode charset table (not surprising, since that appears to be the
whole point of ISFOC).

Scrolling further, you should see that 'mlm-char-glyph' has empty
boxes on the LHS of the table, but there must be proper glyphs on the
RHS -- those RHS entries are from the "malayalam-cdac" fonts.

Overall, the whole workflow of editing Unicode encoded Indic documents
in Emacs is not very smooth yet.

HTH,
- Hari
-- 
Raja R Harinath ------------------------------ harinath@cs.umn.edu

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Robert J. Chassell]

Still no success.

Still using, today's CVS snapshot, Fri, 2003 Feb 14 13:31 UTC GNU
Emacs 21.3.50.146 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit) started with

     /usr/local/bin/emacs -q --no-site-file --eval '(blink-cursor-mode 0)'

   > ...I see empty boxes when I visit
   >
   >     emacs/lisp/language/mlm-util.el

   AFAI can make out, the variables 'malayalam-consonant' and the regexp
   in 'malayalam-composable-pattern' use Unicode.  You need an Unicode
   font that has glyphs in that range.  If your default font doesn't
   have the correct stuff, you'll need in your .emacs

     (set-fontset-font (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))
         (cons (decode-char 'ucs ?\x0D00) (decode-char 'ucs ?\x0D7f))
         (cons "monotype-arial unicode ms" "iso10646-1"))

I just started a fresh Emacs, evaluated that expression in it, and visited
emacs/lisp/language/mlm-util.el

No success.  Same problem as before: empty boxes.


   You can use any font that has Malayalam, ...

Such as...?    please tell me a URL that I can download.

After downloading and unpacking into directory foobar/, 
I presume I then do:

    mkfontdir
    xset fp+ /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/foobar/
    xset fp rehash

Is that right?

(If that is right and you tell me a URL and it all works, I will
write up a short example of what to do.)


   Scrolling further, you should see that 'mlm-char-glyph' has empty
   boxes on the LHS of the table, but there must be proper glyphs on the
   RHS -- those RHS entries are from the "malayalam-cdac" fonts.

Yes, that is the case:  empty boxes on the left hand side and proper
glyphs on the RHS


   Overall, the whole workflow of editing Unicode encoded Indic documents
   in Emacs is not very smooth yet.

In this case, the bug seems to be a lack of the kind of documentation
that I (and others like me) will notice, understand, and follow.

In particular, the current bug is documentation on why, when, and how
to install fonts.  This is is not an Emacs question, but is more
general.  However, if Emacs lacks fonts, it breaks.

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         Rattlesnake Enterprises
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.teak.cc                             bob@rattlesnake.com

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Raja R Harinath]

"Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:

> Still no success.
>
> Still using, today's CVS snapshot, Fri, 2003 Feb 14 13:31 UTC GNU
> Emacs 21.3.50.146 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit) started with
>
>      /usr/local/bin/emacs -q --no-site-file --eval '(blink-cursor-mode 0)'
>
>    > ...I see empty boxes when I visit
>    >
>    >     emacs/lisp/language/mlm-util.el
>
>    AFAI can make out, the variables 'malayalam-consonant' and the regexp
>    in 'malayalam-composable-pattern' use Unicode.  You need an Unicode
>    font that has glyphs in that range.  If your default font doesn't
>    have the correct stuff, you'll need in your .emacs
>
>      (set-fontset-font (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))
>          (cons (decode-char 'ucs ?\x0D00) (decode-char 'ucs ?\x0D7f))
>          (cons "monotype-arial unicode ms" "iso10646-1"))
>
> I just started a fresh Emacs, evaluated that expression in it, and visited
> emacs/lisp/language/mlm-util.el
>
> No success.  Same problem as before: empty boxes.

It wasn't clear my previous mail: but the second cons refers to the
font name.  I used as an example the font "Arial Unicode MS": a TTF
font that came with Microsoft Office 2000.  Sorry about using an
non-free font as an example.

>    You can use any font that has Malayalam, ...
>
> Such as...?    please tell me a URL that I can download.

Try

  http://malayalamlinux.sourceforge.net/input-methods/
  http://malayalamlinux.sourceforge.net/input-methods/malayalam.ttf

(That site had no indication about the freedom of usage of the font.
So, the situation is not really much better.)

> After downloading and unpacking into directory foobar/, 
> I presume I then do:
>
>     mkfontdir
>     xset fp+ /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/foobar/
>     xset fp rehash
>
> Is that right?
>
> (If that is right and you tell me a URL and it all works, I will
> write up a short example of what to do.)

If there is no 'fonts.scale' file in that directory, create it with
the following contents inside the ---8<--- lines.

---8<--- fonts.scale
1
malayalam.ttf -misc-malayalam-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso10646-1
---8<---

If there's already a fonts.scale in that directory, add 1 to the
number on top of that file, and append the "malayalam.ttf -misc-...-1"
line to it.

Then run in that directory

  $ mkfontdir
  $ xset fp+ `pwd`
  $ xset fp rehash

Then, add the following to your .emacs:

      (set-fontset-font (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))
          (cons (decode-char 'ucs #x0D00) (decode-char 'ucs #x0D7f))
          (cons "misc-malayalam" "iso10646-1"))

HTH
- Hari
-- 
Raja R Harinath ------------------------------ harinath@cs.umn.edu

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Robert J. Chassell]

Success!

Thank you!  I can now see all the fonts in

    emacs/lisp/language/mlm-util.el

You gave good instructions.  I copied the fonts from  savannah.nongnu.org

Here is what I did.   This should go into the documentation somewhere.

Handa-san, please add this in the best place.  Thank you.


----------------\

Here is an example of how Robert J. Chassell fetched and installed
the fonts for malayalam, and Indic language.

First, as user `root', execute these commands:

    cd /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/
    mkdir malayalam
    cd malayalam

    wget -c http://savannah.nongnu.org/download/smc/free-mal-fonts.pkg/1.1/free-mal-fonts.tar.gz

    tar tvzf free-mal-fonts.tar.gz           # see what you have
    tar xvzf free-mal-fonts.tar.gz           # untar into a sub-directory

    chown -R root.root .
    chmod -R ugo+rw .

    cd /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/malayalam/free-mal-fonts

Now, you must make sure there is a 'fonts.scale' in the
malayalam/free-mal-fonts/ directory.

Raja R Harinath <harinath@cs.umn.edu> writes:

    If there is no 'fonts.scale' file in that directory, create it with
    the following contents inside the ---8<--- lines.

    ---8<--- fonts.scale
    1
    malayalam.ttf -misc-malayalam-medium-r-normal--0-0-0-0-p-0-iso10646-1
    ---8<---

[the following is not needed if copying the fonts from savannah.nongnu.org]

    If there's already a fonts.scale in that directory, add 1 to the
    number on top of that file, and append the "malayalam.ttf -misc-...-1"
    line to it.


After creating the `fonts.scale' file, in
/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/malayalam/free-mal-fonts/
execute these commands in that directory:

    mkfontdir
    xset fp+ `pwd`
    xset fp rehash

Then, add the following to your ~/.emacs file; you can be a non-root user:

      (set-fontset-font (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))
          (cons (decode-char 'ucs #x0D00) (decode-char 'ucs #x0D7f))
          (cons "misc-malayalam" "iso10646-1"))

Now as a non-root user, you can visit

    emacs/lisp/language/mlm-util.el

in GNU Emacs and see all the fonts.

----------------/

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         Rattlesnake Enterprises
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.teak.cc                             bob@rattlesnake.com

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Ramakrishnan M]

 || On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 00:43:21 +0000 (UTC)
 || "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> wrote: 

 rjc> Success!
 rjc> Thank you!  I can now see all the fonts in

 rjc>     emacs/lisp/language/mlm-util.el

 rjc> You gave good instructions.  I copied the fonts from  savannah.nongnu.org

Actually I have these fonts already in my system and had been using it with the 
emacs-unicode branch and it works properly there.

I still don't see the unicode characters. I see the glyph to be displayed (as
i have those CDAC fonts with me TTKarthika-*-*...) for the composition of unicode
characters(I forgot to mention this before). But I still get

 -Adobe-Courier-Medium-R-Normal--17-120-100-100-M-100-ISO10646-1

when I do C-u C-x = on those boxes.
-- 
    Ramakrishnan M              (http://www.hackGNU.org/)
    Use Free Software -- Help stamp out Software Hoarding!

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Ramakrishnan M]

 rjc>       (set-fontset-font (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))
 rjc>           (cons (decode-char 'ucs #x0D00) (decode-char 'ucs #x0D7f))
 rjc>           (cons "misc-malayalam" "iso10646-1"))

I just found that (frame-parameter nil 'font) returns "Adobe...." and the
(query-fontset ..) returns nil. Any ideas?

-- 
    Ramakrishnan M              (http://www.hackGNU.org/)
    Use Free Software -- Help stamp out Software Hoarding!

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Robert J. Chassell]

Today's CVS snapshot, Sat, 2003 Feb 15  14:17 UTC
GNU Emacs 21.3.50.149 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit)

Yesterday, I wrote:

    Thank you!  I can now see all the fonts in

        emacs/lisp/language/mlm-util.el

I spoke too soon!  I can see the fonts when I manually evaluate, 

  (set-fontset-font (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))
                    (cons (decode-char 'ucs #x0D00) (decode-char 'ucs #x0D7f))
                    (cons "misc-malayalam" "iso10646-1"))

but when I put that expression in my ~/.emacs file, start a new
instance of Emacs, and then visit

  /usr/local/src/emacs/lisp/language/mlm-util.el

I do not see the fonts; I see empty boxes.

But if I manually evaluate the Emacs Lisp expression above while
looking at the `mlm-util.el' in another buffer, the empty boxes
change to proper glyphs.

I am not certain what is going on, but it looks to me that the
`set-fontset-font' function is modifying the first fontset, but that
modification is not done during the loading of the ~/.emacs file.

First, I tried putting the Emacs Lisp expression at the end of my
~/.emacs file, so it would be evaluated last, but that did not solve
the problem.

Then I wrote this hook and put it into my  ~/.emacs file:

    (add-hook 'find-file-hook
              (function (lambda ()
                          (set-fontset-font
                           (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))
                           (cons (decode-char 'ucs #x0D00)
                                 (decode-char 'ucs #x0D7f))
                           (cons "misc-malayalam" "iso10646-1")))))


This succeeds.  That is to say, with this hook, when I visit the
`mlm-util.el' file, I see the proper glyphs.

But the use of such a hook is an ugly way to solve the problem.

What should I do?

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         Rattlesnake Enterprises
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.teak.cc                             bob@rattlesnake.com

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Ramakrishnan M]

 || On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:40:55 -0500 (EST)
 || "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> wrote: 

 rjc> I spoke too soon!  I can see the fonts when I manually evaluate, 

 rjc>   (set-fontset-font (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))
 rjc>                     (cons (decode-char 'ucs #x0D00) (decode-char 'ucs #x0D7f))
 rjc>                     (cons "misc-malayalam" "iso10646-1"))

It is worser here. When I evaluate this manual, I get the following in
Backtrace buffer.

Debugger entered--Lisp error: (wrong-type-argument stringp nil)
  set-fontset-font(nil (335904 . 336063) ("misc-malayalam" . "iso10646-1"))
  eval((set-fontset-font (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil ...)) (cons (decode-char ... 3328) (decode-char ... 3455)) (cons "misc-malayalam" "iso10646-1")))
  eval-last-sexp-1(nil)
  eval-last-sexp(nil)
  call-interactively(eval-last-sexp)

Also when I do M-x describe-fontset (default, used by the current frame) ENTER

I get 

  current frame is using a font, not a fontset

Is this in anyway related?

[BTW, I am not subscribed to emacs-devel, if anyone found a solution, please
copy me. Thanks]
-- 
    Ramakrishnan M              (http://www.hackGNU.org/)
    Use Free Software -- Help stamp out Software Hoarding!

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Benjamin Riefenstahl]

Hi,


gnu@vsnl.net (Ramakrishnan M) writes:

> Also when I do M-x describe-fontset (default, used by the current
> frame) ENTER I get
> 
>   current frame is using a font, not a fontset

This appears for me also, if I start Emacs without any font
configuration.  When I set the font in my ~/.Xdefaults (as I usually
do) I have a fontset, even with emacs -q.

Even when I start emacs -q without an ~/.Xdefaults, I still have two
fontsets defined (they are just not set), named "fontset-standard" and
"fontset-default".  And of these two "fontset-default" seems to be
identical to the default font actually used in this situation.  So you
could probably do:

 (let ((fontset (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))))
    (when (not fontset)
       (setq fontset "fontset-default")
       (set-default-font fontset))
    (set-fontset-font fontset
                      (cons (decode-char 'ucs #x0D00)
                            (decode-char 'ucs #x0D7f))
                      (cons "misc-malayalam" "iso10646-1")))


Hope this helps, benny

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Raja R Harinath]

Hi,

Benjamin Riefenstahl <Benjamin.Riefenstahl@epost.de> writes:

>  (let ((fontset (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))))
>     (when (not fontset)
>        (setq fontset "fontset-default")
>        (set-default-font fontset))

Or use the following (totally untested):

  (let* ((frame-font (frame-parameter nil 'font))
         (current-fontset (query-fontset frame-font)))
    (unless current-fontset
       (setq current-fontset (create-fontset-from-ascii-font frame-font))
       (set-default-font current-fontset))
    ;; ... rest of code using current-fontset
    )  

- Hari
-- 
Raja R Harinath ------------------------------ harinath@cs.umn.edu

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Ramakrishnan M]

 || On 15 Feb 2003 18:54:46 +0100
 || Benjamin Riefenstahl <Benjamin.Riefenstahl@epost.de> wrote: 

 br>  (let ((fontset (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))))
 br>     (when (not fontset)
 br>        (setq fontset "fontset-default")
 br>        (set-default-font fontset))
 br>     (set-fontset-font fontset
 br>                       (cons (decode-char 'ucs #x0D00)
 br>                             (decode-char 'ucs #x0D7f))
 br>                       (cons "misc-malayalam" "iso10646-1")))

I did the above. Still no success! I still cannot see the characters 
in mlm-util.el

-- 
    Ramakrishnan M              (http://www.hackGNU.org/)
    Use Free Software -- Help stamp out Software Hoarding!

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Kenichi Handa]

I'm sorry that I can't respond quickly.  Apart from the
fontset mysterious, I forgot to tell that you have to set
scalable-fonts-allowed to t (the default is nil) to use
TrueType fonts directly.

---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Stefan Monnier]

> fontset mysterious, I forgot to tell that you have to set
> scalable-fonts-allowed to t (the default is nil) to use
> TrueType fonts directly.

That should only be necessary if you also have non-scalable versions
of the same font.


	Stefan

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <200302171441.h1HEfdi26989@rum.cs.yale.edu>, "Stefan Monnier" <monnier+gnu/emacs@rum.cs.yale.edu> writes:

>>  fontset mysterious, I forgot to tell that you have to set
>>  scalable-fonts-allowed to t (the default is nil) to use
>>  TrueType fonts directly.

> That should only be necessary if you also have non-scalable versions
> of the same font.

Ah!  Sure.  I forgot that I set scalable-fonts-allowed to
"-morisawa-.*".  So, the font selector doesn't fallback to
the other scalable fonts.  Hmmm, even in that case, the font
selector should try all the other scalable fonts.  Actually,
I did that in emacs-unicode a while ago, and forgot about
that completely.  :-(

---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <200302181151.UAA17618@etlken.m17n.org>, Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org> writes:
> Ah!  Sure.  I forgot that I set scalable-fonts-allowed to
> "-morisawa-.*".  So, the font selector doesn't fallback to
> the other scalable fonts.  Hmmm, even in that case, the font
> selector should try all the other scalable fonts.  Actually,
> I did that in emacs-unicode a while ago, and forgot about
> that completely.  :-(

I've just installed that change in HEAD.

---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org

2003-02-19  Kenichi Handa  <handa@m17n.org>

	* xfaces.c (try_alternative_families): Try all scalable fonts if
	Vscalable_fonts_allowed is not Qt.

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <87smugyh08.fsf@vsnl.net>, gnu@vsnl.net (Ramakrishnan M) writes:
> Ah.. I finally could see malayalam. Thanks to all of you
> who helped me get this working. I did the following in
> ~/.emacs

> (if (eq 'x window-system)
>     (let ((fontset (query-fontset (frame-parameter nil 'font))))
>       (when (not fontset)
> 	(setq fontset "fontset-default")
> 	(set-default-font fontset))
>       (set-fontset-font fontset
> 			(cons (decode-char 'ucs #x0D00)
> 			      (decode-char 'ucs #x0D7f))
> 			(cons "misc-malayalam" "iso10646-1"))))

I think you can simply do this:

(if (featurep 'fontset)
    (set-fontset-font "fontset-default"
		      (cons (decode-char 'ucs #x0D00)
			    (decode-char 'ucs #x0D7f))
		      (cons "misc-malayalam" "iso10646-1")))

> Now, my question is, can the whole thing be automated such
> that when I just add a font to the system, it gets automatically
> added to the fontset-default ? 

There are fonts that have malayalam glyphs other than
"misc-malayalam", e.g. the font distribute here.
	http://openlab.jp/efont/dist/unicode-bdf/
They don't have "misc-malayalam" name but can be used in
Emacs as well.

So, even if Emacs finds "misc-malayalam" font, it doesn't
mean a user want to use it.

The problem of "iso10646-1" fonts is that, inspite of that
registy name, they don't contain the whole glyphs for
iso10646.  To select a proper font for for a specific
character automatically, Emacs has to check contents of each
font.  The current Emacs doesn't have this facility.  As I
implemented it for emacs-unicode, I'd like to ask people to
wait for emacs-unicode.

---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <m37kc1whsp.fsf@cicero.benny.turtle-trading.net>, Benjamin Riefenstahl <Benjamin.Riefenstahl@epost.de> writes:
> gnu@vsnl.net (Ramakrishnan M) writes:

>>  Also when I do M-x describe-fontset (default, used by the current
>>  frame) ENTER I get
>>  
>>    current frame is using a font, not a fontset

> This appears for me also, if I start Emacs without any font
> configuration.  When I set the font in my ~/.Xdefaults (as I usually
> do) I have a fontset, even with emacs -q.

I have just installed a change with which M-x
describe-fontset will describe the default fontset if the
current frame is not using a fontset.

By the way, I'll explain a bit more about the fontsets.

Emacs creates these fontset at startup time.

(1) The default fontset ("fontset-default").

This fontset is not used directly as a frame font.  It is to
provide fallback font information.  When a frame is not
using a fontset, or a frame's fontset doesn't contain font
information about a specific character, the fonts specified
in the default fontset is used.

So, in most cases, changing the definition of the fontset is
effective.

(2) The standard fontset ("fontset-standard").

This is a fontset of 16-dot fonts for non-ASCII characters
most widely installed.  By using this fontset, the
possibility of seeing many non-ASCII characters in a
balanced size is very high.

(3) The startup fontset ("fontset-startup").

If you specify a font by "-fn" command line argument or by X
resource "Font", Emacs creates this fontset by the function
create-fontset-from-ascii-font, and uses it for the initial
frame.  In this case, the fontset specifies only a font for
ASCII characters.  So, the fonts for non-ASCII characters
are decided by the default fontset.  But on selecting a
font, the family of the ASCII fonts is respected.

If no font is specified, Emacs uses this font (on Unix/GNU
Linux):
    -adobe-courier-medium-r-*-*-*-120-*-*-*-*-iso8859-1
In this case, the initial frame doesn't use a fontset, thus
the fonts for non-ASCII characters are decidd by the default
fontset too.

(4) The fontsets created from the X resource "Fontset-N".

When you have X resource "Fontset-N" (N is 0, 1, 2, ...),
Emacs creates the corresponding fontset as described in the
node "Defining Fontsets" of Emacs info.

---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Juanma Barranquero]

On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:09:16 +0900 (JST), Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org> wrote:

> By the way, I'll explain a bit more about the fontsets.

Speaking of fontsets, with this change:

  Revision 1.74 - Thu Feb 20 08:40:35 2003 UTC (3 hours, 34 minutes ago) by handa 
  Branch: MAIN 
  CVS Tags: HEAD 

  (check_fontset_name): If NAME is nil, return the default fontset.

Emacs doesn't load on windowing mode on Windows because term/w32-win.el
contains:

  (set-fontset-font t (make-char 'katakana-jisx0201) '("*" . "JISX0208-SJIS"))
  (set-fontset-font t (make-char 'latin-jisx0201) '("*" . "JISX0208-SJIS"))
  (set-fontset-font t (make-char 'japanese-jisx0208) '("*" . "JISX0208-SJIS"))
  (set-fontset-font t (make-char 'japanese-jisx0208-1978) '("*" . "JISX0208-SJIS"))

It's easy enough to change these t to nil, but, why the change?

AFAICS, (set-fontset-font [t|nil]...) is not used anywhere on Emacs
except by term/w32-win.el, and not surprisingly so, as the docs don't
mention the posibility of NAME being other than a string...

                                                           /L/e/k/t/u

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <20030220131831.A3E0.LEKTU@terra.es>, Juanma Barranquero <lektu@terra.es> writes:
>   (check_fontset_name): If NAME is nil, return the default fontset.

> Emacs doesn't load on windowing mode on Windows because term/w32-win.el
> contains:

>   (set-fontset-font t (make-char 'katakana-jisx0201) '("*" . "JISX0208-SJIS"))
>   (set-fontset-font t (make-char 'latin-jisx0201) '("*" . "JISX0208-SJIS"))
>   (set-fontset-font t (make-char 'japanese-jisx0208) '("*" . "JISX0208-SJIS"))
>   (set-fontset-font t (make-char 'japanese-jisx0208-1978) '("*" . "JISX0208-SJIS"))

> It's easy enough to change these t to nil, but, why the change?

> AFAICS, (set-fontset-font [t|nil]...) is not used anywhere on Emacs
> except by term/w32-win.el, and not surprisingly so, as the docs don't
> mention the posibility of NAME being other than a string...

Oops, sorry.  Long ago, for already forgotten reason, I
introduced the feature of using t for the default fontset,
but, it seems that the necessity disappeared before I
documented it.

I think nil is better than t for specifying the default
fontset.

I've just documented that NAME nil means the default fontset
in functions of fontset.c, and fixed term/w32-win.el.

---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Richard Stallman]

    By the way, I'll explain a bit more about the fontsets.

    Emacs creates these fontset at startup time.

Could you write text about these for the Emacs Manual
or the Emacs Lisp Manual?

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Richard Stallman]

I visited CDAC today and met with its head, Dr Arora.
It looks like there is a good chance they will make their fonts free.

In the mean time, I am forwarding info about existing free
fonts for India scripts, send by Arun:

http://www.gnu.org.in/software/software.html#akruti

Re: No malayalam glyphs in language/mlm-util.el

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <E18ks0O-0004Vg-00@fencepost.gnu.org>, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> I visited CDAC today and met with its head, Dr Arora.
> It looks like there is a good chance they will make their fonts free.

That's a very good news.   Thank you for taking time for it.

> In the mean time, I am forwarding info about existing free
> fonts for India scripts, send by Arun:

> http://www.gnu.org.in/software/software.html#akruti

I checked those fonts.  As I wrote, it seems that it's not
difficult to use those fonts.  With emacs-unicode, as I have
implemented auto-composition mode, it's possible to support
both of them, i.e. users can switch fonts dynamically.  But
with the current emacs, users have to select which fonts to
use at startup time.

---
Ken'ichi HANDA
handa@m17n.org

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Richard Stallman]

I am now in contact with people who know CDAC, and I will try to
persuade them.

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[川幡 太一]

Dear people,

I'm sorry that I couldn't read the past mails.  I was busy at this
Friday and Thursday.  

I have no time to read the other mails but just skimming them,
so I'll reply with merely reading this mail.

>>>>> In <E18jP18-0000T1-00@fencepost.gnu.org> (Re: no font shown with tamil.el), 
>>>>> Stallman wrote:

> This is really the crucial information.  If these licenses are free,
> then we have no problem.  There is no need to work on replacing them
> if they are ok to use.

> On the other hand, if these licenses are NOT free, and if ISFOC is in
> India, and if I can meet with them while I am here, maybe I can do
> some good.

> I need the info ASAP, since I am travelling around India and we don't
> know which city they are in.

o C-DAC's various Indian fonts are copyrighted.  

o When I asked them about the use of their fonts for Emacs, they've
  given me the permisson in 1999.

o But it was a long time ago, so we should ask again for it for
  assurance.  Dr. Anupam, who worked for CDAC at that time and gave me
  the permisson, no longer work there.

o It seems they've given the right to distribute their fonts for
  various places, if we search the web sites with their font name as
  keyword.

o I realize that their fonts are not really free fonts, but since they
  seems beautiful, popular, and only well known glyphs so that we had
  no choice for that fonts other than theirs at that time.  Now
  situation may change now.

o I thought that the copyright issue of the program code for
  char->glyph conversion and the copyright of font can be separated.

Yours sincerely, 

-- 
----------------------------------------
KAWABATA, Taichi (batta@beige.ocn.ne.jp)
----------------------------------------

Re: no font shown with tamil.el

[Richard Stallman]

    o When I asked them about the use of their fonts for Emacs, they've
      given me the permisson in 1999.

I'm sorry to say this, but I think you asked for the wrong kind of
permission.  Permission to "use something in Emacs" is permission that
we cannot use.  What we need is permission to include something in
Emacs under a free license.  If it is not under a free license, we
can't use it.  We can't even recommend it to people.

Besides which, the permission that they gave does not apply to GNU
Emacs at all:

    You may go ahead and create fonts for use on Linux. Hope adding credits to 
    CDAC in copyright strings or in applications would be possible.

Nothing we do is specifically for use with Linux.  Some versions of
the GNU system include Linux, and some do not.  Emacs runs on the
GNU/Linux system and on many other systems.  In order to use something
in Emacs we need more than just permission to use it "on Linux".  (See
http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html).

    o I realize that their fonts are not really free fonts, but since they
      seems beautiful, popular, and only well known glyphs so that we had
      no choice for that fonts other than theirs at that time.

It makes no difference how popular, beautiful or unique these fonts
are.  If something isn't free, we cannot use it.

I will delete the recommendation from INSTALL now.  However, there is no need
to start changing code yet.  I have various contacts with CDAC and will
try convincing them to make these fonts free.