From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stefan Monnier" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.psgml.devel,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Re: Key sequence C-c C-f C-e uses invalid prefix characters Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 17:48:02 -0500 Sender: psgml-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net Message-ID: <200212162248.gBGMm2m00520@rum.cs.yale.edu> References: <3DFE4E98.1080204@silmaril.ie> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1040082985 30894 80.91.224.249 (16 Dec 2002 23:56:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:56:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, lenst@lysator.liu.se, keichwa@gmx.net, monnier+gnu/emacs/pretest@rum.cs.yale.edu, no-spam@cua.dk, psgml-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, mvidner@suse.cz, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Pavel@Janik.cz, kevinr@ihs.com Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18O55x-00081t-00 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 00:56:21 +0100 Original-Received: from lists.sourceforge.net ([66.35.250.206] helo=sc8-sf-list2.sourceforge.net) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18O5Je-00088G-00 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 01:10:30 +0100 Original-Received: from sc8-sf-list1-b.sourceforge.net ([10.3.1.13] helo=sc8-sf-list1.sourceforge.net) by sc8-sf-list2.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 18O55h-0004RV-00; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 15:56:05 -0800 Original-Received: from rum.cs.yale.edu ([128.36.229.169]) by sc8-sf-list1.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 18O427-00069I-00 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:48:19 -0800 Original-Received: (from monnier@localhost) by rum.cs.yale.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id gBGMm2m00520; Mon, 16 Dec 2002 17:48:02 -0500 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.4 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 Original-To: Peter Flynn Errors-To: psgml-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net X-BeenThere: psgml-devel@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9-sf.net Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: X-Original-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 17:48:02 -0500 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.psgml.devel:75 gmane.emacs.devel:10184 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:10184 > Richard Stallman wrote: > > Dave Love wrote something earlier about including PSGML in the Emacs > > distribution. I don't know the status of this. But it could either be > > as a replacement of the current sgml-mode or in addition to it. > > Replacement. I've been advocating this ever since psgml reached stable > *years* ago. sgml-mode alone is useless and vastly confusing for the > beginner, as it precisely does *NOT* implement SGML editing, only the > recognition of pointy brackets -- useful 15 years ago but not now! Last I heard (and that was before Dave's patches were incorporated), PSGML did not deal well at all with the situation where the DTD is unknown, which happens to be the standard case for me. This is why I spent some time improving sgml-mode. I believe that Dave's patches do bring PSGML to the point where it is about as good as sgml-mode when editing text without DTD, so maybe it is now good enough to replace sgml-mode. > Please. In perpetuating sgml-mode we are making the Emacs distro look > very silly. Given the amount of complaint about PSGML "not indenting and not highlighting" we have seen on gnu.emacs.help I'd say that the lack of DTD-less support has been a problem for a long time now. Yes, PSGML should be included in Emacs, and as soon as it truly works as well (no matter how poor that is) as sgml-mode in DTD-less settings, we can and should replace sgml-mode with PSGML. But the DTD-less setting is very important. Stefan ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by: With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility Learn to use your power at OSDN's High Performance Computing Channel http://hpc.devchannel.org/