From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: gdba probs Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:27:57 -0500 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <20021208022757.GA8446@gnu.org> References: <15855.47556.171128.631234@nick.uklinux.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1039314590 31323 80.91.224.249 (8 Dec 2002 02:29:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 02:29:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18KrCW-000895-00 for ; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 03:29:48 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18KrLu-0001dw-00 for ; Sun, 08 Dec 2002 03:39:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18KrB7-0004Kw-04 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:28:21 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18KrAr-0004Kq-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:28:05 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18KrAq-0004Kf-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:28:05 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18KrAp-0004KZ-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:28:03 -0500 Original-Received: from miles by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.10) id 18KrAj-0002cf-00; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:27:57 -0500 Original-To: Richard Stallman Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Blat: Foop Original-cc: nick@nick.uklinux.net X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:9970 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:9970 On Sat, Dec 07, 2002 at 04:25:57PM -0500, Richard Stallman wrote: > The totalview debugger starts with 6 windows. But, hey!, lets be open > minded about this. How do you know you don't want them before you know > what they do ? > > Is there a way to make it more self-evident what these windows do? > What measures are taken in the code as it is now > to show the user what these windows do and how to use them? The meaning of the windows should be pretty obvious to most people who have some debugger experience I think; at least they were to me. I presumed when Nick said that, he meant it as a joke. THe bigger problem is that they simply aren't very useful unless they have some contents; until then they're just a waste of space -- and in many cases they're a wast of space even if they _do_ have some contents, because the contents are not something you want to see continuously (for instance the breakpoints window). The set of windows you want is highly dependent on what you're debugging. The GUI debuggers I've used typically start out displaying only one or two windows (e.g., the command window and a source window, sort of like normal gud mode), but offer toolbar buttons to easily pop up others; once the others are popped up, they are updated continuously. Note that for some window types, you can pop up more than one instance -- e.g. memory display windows, where you may want to display several regions of memory simultaneously. Since screen-space is a fairly precious commodity for me this is a very good method of operation (and I suspect the same is true of many users -- not everyone uses a 1600x1280 display with an 8 point font!). I gather that gdba is modelled after GUI debuggers that initially pop up many very small windows; I've seen these, but don't like them, largely for the reasons stated above (the other reason is that such debuggers usually seem to use an `every window has a different obnoxious neon background color' look; I guess they do this so you can sort out all those windows easily, but man it's ugly!). -Miles -- Is it true that nothing can be known? If so how do we know this? -Woody Allen