From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Jan D." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gtk version getting closer Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:15:43 +0100 (CET) Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: <200211131013.gADAD2MU016072@stubby.bodenonline.com> References: <8011-Tue12Nov2002202119+0200-eliz@is.elta.co.il> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1037201053 20174 80.91.224.249 (13 Nov 2002 15:24:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:24:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18BzCF-00044U-00 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:12:51 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18BzOC-00066k-00 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:25:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Bun2-0001Qw-00; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 05:30:32 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 18BuaK-0003tB-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 05:17:24 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 18BuaE-0003qR-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 05:17:22 -0500 Original-Received: from stubby.bodenonline.com ([193.201.16.94]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BuaC-0003pM-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 05:17:17 -0500 Original-Received: from pc35.bodenonline.com (IDENT:root@[193.201.16.44]) by stubby.bodenonline.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id gADAD2MU016072; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:13:02 +0100 In-Reply-To: <8011-Tue12Nov2002202119+0200-eliz@is.elta.co.il> "from Eli Zaretskii at Nov 12, 2002 08:21:20 pm" Original-To: Eli Zaretskii Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:9343 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:9343 > > I do think tips can have a negative effect on menu item strings. It is > > too easy to make a menu with cryptic strings and then fully explain the > > items in the tip instead. > > The main reason for tooltips in menus is that menu items are usually > limited in length. Tooltips can be longer, especially since the font > used for them is (or should be) smaller. If one sets a default font for everything in .Xdefaults, or use for example CDE, KDE (and perhaps Gnome) tools for setting style, the tooltip will pick up that default font. That usually makes the tooltip font larger than the menu font. I see this all the time with various OS:es and users. I don't think any assumption about font should be made at all when writing menu strings or tooltip strings. There is nothing "wrong" with a long menu string. After all, it only pops up when the menu is selected and does not take screen space otherwise. And when the menu is selected, it is the focus of attention, so it can take up as much space it needs. In the Option menu, many menu strings are longer than their tip. And in many cases, the tip would have made a better menu string, IMHO (for example Syntax Highlightning). The alternative is to have a long tooltip. Then one has to wait for the tooltip to appear, shift focus of attention to the tooltip (which may be on the other side of the screen), and then shift attention back to the menu. All this move of attention is what makes an UI seem strange. True, the same happens with the toolbar, so ideally, it should have (the option to have) text under the icons. Jan D.