From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Jan D." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gtk version getting closer Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:34:06 +0100 (MET) Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: <200211121231.gACCV1MU030709@stubby.bodenonline.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1037201020 19983 80.91.224.249 (13 Nov 2002 15:23:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:23:40 +0000 (UTC) Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18BzCV-00046m-00 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:13:07 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18BzOS-00066k-00 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:25:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BaRe-0006VT-00; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 07:47:06 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 18BaGG-0000SM-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 07:35:20 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 18BaGB-0000Rp-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 07:35:18 -0500 Original-Received: from stubby.bodenonline.com ([193.201.16.94]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18BaGA-0000Rd-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 07:35:15 -0500 Original-Received: from pc35.bodenonline.com (IDENT:root@[193.201.16.44]) by stubby.bodenonline.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id gACCV1MU030709 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:31:02 +0100 Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: from "Eli Zaretskii" at nov 12, 2002 07:50:15 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0pre8] Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:9335 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:9335 > Where the menu item's text is self-explanatory, there usually is no > tooltip that pops up. In other words, tooltips for menu items should be > defined only where they are really needed. > This isn't always the case. Maybe the help texts should be reviewed and expanded/removed as a result? For example, in Options we have: "Save Place in Files between Sessions" The tooltip for that is "Save Emacs state for next session". I think that the menu entry is much clearer hear, the tip is confusing. Much of the tips doesn't add anything IMHO. If a user has used any other GUI-based application, things such as "Open File", "Insert File", "Save As" does not need any tip. Sometimes the tips uses a different concept than the menu item. In the Tools -> PCL-CVS submenu, we have "Examine Directory". The tip says "Examine the current state of a workarea". Directory is understandable, but what is workarea? If it is the same as directory, why not use directory? The PCL-CVS submenu itself can be made clearer by renaming it to "CVS operations" or something like that. Also, there is the problem with inconsistency. Some menu items have tips, other doesn't as pointed out elsewhere. I do agree with the view that the user might think something is broken when no tips appear for some things. For submenus there are no tips. The PCL-CVS entry could use one, since PCL-CVS is kind of cryptic. But of course I'd prefer PCL-CVS to be renamed in the menu instead. The tips appear in the wrong places (i.e. under the pointer) sometimes. I don't have a Lucid version available, but in the Motif and Gtk version you can click and release on a menubar item to make the menu appear. Then you can navigate the menus with arrow keys. The tip displayed is for the menu item marked with the arrow keys, but the tip appears where the pointer is. The pointer can be on the other side of the screen, so this looks funny. I do think tips can have a negative effect on menu item strings. It is too easy to make a menu with cryptic strings and then fully explain the items in the tip instead. This forces the user to select the menu item and then wait for the tip to appear for the full explanation. If tips did not exist, more thought would be going into selecting good menu item strings. I really would like to see tips for menus removed, but a customize item to turn them off for menus is okay too. Jan D.