From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Michael Reilly Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Rmail changes for Emacs 22 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 05:57:07 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: <200210230957.g9N9v7K3019127@copa.pajato.com> References: <200210201940.g9KJeqW12529@rum.cs.yale.edu> <200210221432.g9MEWHa22491@rum.cs.yale.edu> Reply-To: pmr@pajato.com NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1035367249 4561 80.91.224.249 (23 Oct 2002 10:00:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:00:49 +0000 (UTC) Cc: monnier+gnu/emacs@rum.cs.yale.edu, eliz@is.elta.co.il, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 184IJh-0001BG-00 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:00:45 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 184ILK-0002vs-00 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:02:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 184IJD-0002ts-00; Wed, 23 Oct 2002 06:00:15 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 184IIn-0002dO-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2002 05:59:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 184IGI-0001mH-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Oct 2002 05:57:16 -0400 Original-Received: from copa.pajato.com ([209.113.133.197]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 184IGC-0001SK-00; Wed, 23 Oct 2002 05:57:08 -0400 Original-Received: from copa.pajato.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by copa.pajato.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g9N9v76F019131; Wed, 23 Oct 2002 05:57:07 -0400 Original-Received: (from pmr@localhost) by copa.pajato.com (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) id g9N9v7K3019127; Wed, 23 Oct 2002 05:57:07 -0400 Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Richard Stallman on Wed, 23 Oct 2002 03:12:13 -0400) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:8682 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:8682 > From rms@gnu.org Wed Oct 23 03:12:21 2002 > Reply-to: rms@gnu.org > X-BABYL-V6-ATTRIBUTES: ------- > > I said it should never *en*code. Obviously, it will have to decode > somewhere on the way between the mbox file and the display. > > The question at hand is when and how to do the decoding. I'm not sure that it is totally obvious, but AFAICS there are TWO distinct coding system issues. First is the message based decoding that everyone seems to recognize that is necessary to view messages. Second is the coding system used for mail file/buffer. They are mostly orthogonal. The mail buffer coding system will be dynamic. It should mostly be iso-latin1 according to mail rfcs but Users will tend to abuse the specs so Rmail needs to be robust enough to handle that abuse. How exactly remains to be decided. Editing of messages is discussed below. As messages in the mail file are viewed, the buffer coding system will very likely change, at least in the narrowed region viewing the message. My gut feel is that the use of special view buffers (apart from the mail file buffer) will be necessary in certain cases (yet to be determined) as we integrate MIME and IMAP for first class (default) treatment. I strongly agree with Richard that separate view buffers are to be avoided like the plague. If memory serves, VM uses special viewing buffers on a limited basis. Editing of messages opens up a huge can of worms wrt coding system. If anyone can state a sensible and effective policy for dealing with coding system conflicts while editing messages, more power to 'em. I'm listening. It is easy to foresee Users changing message headers and bodies in ways that would render a message unmailable and/or unviewable in another mail agent but are nevertheless doable within Emacs. FWIW, I fully support the notion of a front-end / multiple back-end design and have already started on it. Any opinions on a good model in the current code base? I've looked at Gnus in the past and found it very, very complex. VC is straightforward and Richard has mentioned compose-mail. -pmr