From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [CVS] f7, f8 bound.. Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:55:28 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: <20020830235528.GA13207@gnu.org> References: <200208271621.g7RGLNm30516@rum.cs.yale.edu> <5xhehfe3aj.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> <874rdfaytt.fsf@pot.cnuce.cnr.it> <5xvg5sh06u.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1030751817 32274 127.0.0.1 (30 Aug 2002 23:56:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 23:56:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE, pot@gnu.org, monnier+gnu/emacs@rum.cs.yale.edu, deego@glue.umd.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17kvdI-0008OR-00 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 01:56:56 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17kwAI-0003Hu-00 for ; Sat, 31 Aug 2002 02:31:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17kveh-0002Ex-00; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:58:23 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17kvc1-0001v6-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:55:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17kvby-0001uu-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:55:36 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17kvby-0001up-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:55:34 -0400 Original-Received: from miles by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.10) id 17kvbs-0003st-00; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:55:28 -0400 Original-To: "Kim F. Storm" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5xvg5sh06u.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Blat: Foop Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:7193 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:7193 On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 04:48:41PM +0200, Kim F. Storm wrote: > IMO, we better use the function keys for things which makes using > emacs easier. ... > As an example, M$-Word (which I would image quite a few users are > using -- like it or not) has the following bindings ... > Seems completely arbitraty to me... Right -- I think the same can be said for almost _any_ binding, except absurdly standardized ones like F1 (though even that's really useful for PC users). Personally I think it's silly to even think about having standardized bindings for function keys; we should just leave them all for user-use (except F1 and F10 I suppose, because they're apparently _very_ standard, and for backward-compatibilty reasons). Certainly, for operations you perform _very_ often, it can be convenient to have them on a function key -- but exactly which operations those are is very subjective. For any operation that you only perform _somewhat_ often, on the other hand, function keys are a positively _bad_ user interface: they're hard to touch-type and more importantly, they're very hard to remember. A _much_ better idea, I think, would be to make it very simple for even novice users to easily _bind_ the function keys to their liking; I'm not saying it's all that hard now, but I mean, make it really, really, easy. For instance, a mode that shows a graphical representation of the function keys and their current bindings, and allows the user to trivially change them. Perhaps by moving the cursor to a function key picture, and hitting SPC/RET which would make it prompt for a another key-binding, and then copy that to the function key; while in this special mode, it might even locally rebind all the function keys so that you could just hit e.g. `F5 C-x C-f' to bind F5 to find-file. What do you think about this? -Miles -- P.S. All information contained in the above letter is false, for reasons of military security.