From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ryszard Kubiak Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: additional improvement of Polish tutorial Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:00:35 +0200 Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: <200208222000.WAA01069@home.ipipan.gda.pl> References: <87znvtjz06.fsf@mimuw.edu.pl> <87u1luyfxr.fsf@mimuw.edu.pl> <200208170451.g7H4pCE08667@wijiji.santafe.edu> <87wuqpyye4.fsf@mimuw.edu.pl> <200208190050.g7J0o3X09215@wijiji.santafe.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1030046344 28683 127.0.0.1 (22 Aug 2002 19:59:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:59:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: jsbien@mimuw.edu.pl, emacs-devel@gnu.org, wierzcho@polbox.com, matwb@univ.gda.pl Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17hy6d-0007SO-00 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 21:58:59 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17hyZf-0004Fd-00 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:28:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17hy7l-0000ty-00; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:00:09 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17hy4x-0000T4-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:57:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17hy4v-0000Ss-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:57:15 -0400 Original-Received: from home.ipipan.gda.pl ([153.19.136.20]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17hy4t-0000Rk-00; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:57:12 -0400 Original-Received: (from rysiek@localhost) by home.ipipan.gda.pl (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01069; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:00:35 +0200 Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <200208190050.g7J0o3X09215@wijiji.santafe.edu> (message from Richard Stallman on Sun, 18 Aug 2002 18:50:03 -0600 (MDT)) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:6771 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:6771 Dear Richard, > Does it promote use of non-free software? The link http://www.agh.edu.pl/ogonki refers to a collection of pages where people may learn how to solve problems with Polish national characters in various pieces of software. After thinking on the idea, and checking the contents of those pages I admit that the link should be removed from the Polish translation of the tutorial due to the legal problem you mantion. The idea behind placing the link was that in our translation we use Polish national characters. Emacs beginners will probably not see them when they read the tutorial in a freshly installed Emacs. It will be so since there are lots of Emacs parameters to be configurated for the accented characters to work properly. I think that Emacs on-line documentation lacks material on solving the most basic problems with manipulating text files in Emacs: such as inputing national characters, getting them on the screen and on paper. The file Emacs Known Problems is more about Emacs problems with itself, very exotic at places, than on solving those basic problems in Emacs. Just to give you an example of such a problem. At work, I've been using Emacs for many years now and, in particular, ntEmacs on Windows for a couple of years. For all this time with ntEmacs, I have not managed to print a text in Polish with lpr-buffer properly! None of all other text editors we exploit on Windows has problems with simply sending a text file to a printer. The Polish characters look on paper just as they should. Only when printed by Emacs they don't! I spent yet another two hours today on surfing the Internet, ntEmacs on-line documentation and various FAQs, in hope that somebody has solved the problem. Yet again, I made many experiments with plethora of MULE parameters. With no success. I don't know if there is something wrong with ntEmacs software, or, my configuration of MULE parameters is wrong. I believe that Emacs begginers should be referred as soon as in the tutorial to a place where they can learn on how to solve the common problems with national characters. The Emacs Known Problems file, however, is not the right reference. I second Junusz Bien's concept that Emacs distribution should contain PROBLEM files dedicated to solving problems in various countries. Best Regards, Rysiek