From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [dane@mail.abcsinc.com: Scroll bars] Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:21:23 -0600 (MDT) Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: <200208201721.g7KHLNV09768@wijiji.santafe.edu> References: <200208170450.g7H4ovd08634@wijiji.santafe.edu> <200208191453.g7JErRv13421@rum.cs.yale.edu> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1029864312 7589 127.0.0.1 (20 Aug 2002 17:25:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 17:25:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: monnier+gnu/emacs@rum.cs.yale.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17hCkb-0001yB-00 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 19:25:05 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17hDCb-00015x-00 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 19:54:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17hClj-0001WS-00; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:26:15 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17hCh9-00014p-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:21:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17hCh3-00013i-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:21:30 -0400 Original-Received: from pele.santafe.edu ([192.12.12.119]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17hCh2-00013I-00; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:21:24 -0400 Original-Received: from wijiji.santafe.edu (wijiji [192.12.12.5]) by pele.santafe.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7KHLk528840; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:21:46 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: (from rms@localhost) by wijiji.santafe.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) id g7KHLNV09768; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:21:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: wijiji.santafe.edu: rms set sender to rms@wijiji using -f Original-To: monnier+gnu/emacs@rum.cs.yale.edu In-Reply-To: <200208191453.g7JErRv13421@rum.cs.yale.edu> (monnier+gnu/emacs@rum.cs.yale.edu) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:6681 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:6681 Some users expect the Motif-like behavior offered by Gtk/Lesstif/KDE/... and Xaw3d-with-scroll-bar-arrows, while others expect the old non-toolkit behavior which is also the standard behavior of Xaw and Xaw3d-without-scrollbar-arrows. There may be both kinds, but the two cases are not parallel, and not equally important. Many computer users who are new to Emacs are accustomed to more-or-less Motif-like scroll behavior. They often get completely confused by the current non-arrow Xaw3D behavior. They think Emacs scroll bars are simply broken. Most of them don't send bug reports. By contrast, the old X users who are used to the xterm scroll bar commands will know how to cope if they get the Motif-like behavior. Even if they can't change it, they will figure out how to use it. They won't just give up and say "it's broken." We need a way to make Xaw3D always deliver Motif-like behavior. Fiddling with the Xaw3d toolkit's mouse-bindings via Xresources is not something I have the time and/or inclination to do right now, so I can't really help. Also this would only provide the customizability for Xaw3d but not for Lesstif. I don't know how to do such a customization for Lesstif. The urgent need is only for Xaw3d, and only to make it behave the way LessTif scroll bars normally do. It would be nice to have more general customization facilities, and to be able to customize LessTif scrolling, but that is much more than what we need. Let's not give up on a small task just because it suggests a larger possible task. Can someone please offer to work now on the job that is needed now?