From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Enhancements to "minor-mode-map-alist" functionality. Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: <200204181846.g3IIk2K00596@aztec.santafe.edu> References: <5xbscpg7zl.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> <200204112243.g3BMhmI01190@rum.cs.yale.edu> <5xd6x5i7ps.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> <5x4rih12b2.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> <200204121846.g3CIkZY16909@rum.cs.yale.edu> <5xofgoobzr.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> <200204122021.g3CKLh217680@rum.cs.yale.edu> <5xu1qd29od.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> <200204162018.g3GKI3S24358@aztec.santafe.edu> <5x662rxog2.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1019155701 25978 127.0.0.1 (18 Apr 2002 18:48:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:48:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 16yGxB-0006kt-00 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:48:21 +0200 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 16yHGT-0008WP-00 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:08:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16yGxC-0001zU-00; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:48:22 -0400 Original-Received: from pele.santafe.edu ([192.12.12.119]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16yGuy-0001rg-00; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:46:05 -0400 Original-Received: from aztec.santafe.edu (aztec [192.12.12.49]) by pele.santafe.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g3IIk2a15639; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:46:02 -0600 (MDT) Original-Received: (from rms@localhost) by aztec.santafe.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.9.3) id g3IIk2K00596; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:46:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: aztec.santafe.edu: rms set sender to rms@aztec using -f Original-To: storm@cua.dk In-Reply-To: <5x662rxog2.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> (storm@cua.dk) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:2749 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:2749 Consider a keymap K which has a binding for [C-x 1], a keymap P which has a binding for [C-x 2], and a keymap S which has a binding for [C-x 3]. Keymap S has a filter which means that it is only active if mark-active is non-nil. Now, we want keymap P to be a parent map for K, and we want S to be a submap of K. Why do we want that? What job are you trying to do? With my proposal, C-x 1, C-x 2, and (if mark-active) C-x 3 will all work seemlessly What does it mean for them to "work"? Once again, what job are you trying to do? It is not useful to address this backwards. We must not introduce more complex features merely because they look appealing in the abstract. We have to look at the job first, then determine how much complexity is really *necessary*. > What problem is it meant to solve? Multiple keymap inheritance as well as conditional keymaps. Multiple inheritance is a mess. We should avoid it if we can. > There is no way to implement such a restriction, > and users don't generally know which functions do consing. This is not intended to be a user feature, it is for package writers. I know which users this feature is for. The users of Emacs Lisp don't generally know which functions do consing. That can change. I didn't think we should `implement' the restriction -- simply document it. No way. This proposal includes many aspects each of which is very undesirable. The entire approach is wrong. We need to start by looking at the actual problem that we actually need to solve.