From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 15:15:22 +0300 Message-ID: <1e5f135f-37f0-ef9f-f3a5-2cb247fb2205@yandex.ru> References: <0c88192c-3c33-46ed-95cb-b4c6928016e3@default> <550fa43f-30ef-14f3-dd19-dd97a985a04e@yandex.ru> <95bddb34-2c3f-eff5-220f-16b726d97a69@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="20114"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org, joaotavora@gmail.com, pcr910303@icloud.com, eliz@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 03 14:16:19 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jgSJd-00053E-DY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2020 14:16:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45226 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jgSJc-0004CT-Fc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2020 08:16:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44832) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jgSIr-0003Y4-Or for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Jun 2020 08:15:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x429.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::429]:38237) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jgSIp-00016X-Vq; Wed, 03 Jun 2020 08:15:29 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x429.google.com with SMTP id e1so2120238wrt.5; Wed, 03 Jun 2020 05:15:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8iOXn8/LwJSm6y0EQczbsJ+oKj0PaEIBUJdnvtHMN4w=; b=EZBEizmWusnUdB8vd3CrU8npwpTibls6ZxdhYX+TYmXoOQQW/DuKyYanYYSPVndZpq iVyUA8tO2MD+tmCKnK22od+vzGM+2AdFP3nibUriZV21HRjJgoNeHYduDSOhe6Ur7y0j Q7z0r2DBCHVIdEkYvi1I96UyKG1lgoLPMBeZMbGWjdd4x8vVsEQxy+QEZ0/VSqvr1tvu lH80f6Sowg/k+X80B+auPsmOGUvBV0KJBj6PfM4LWnjMpU8Aawsp8emMm2YVjSKkyS+P iypcaCMQwmzrI+cmygNn+xqq+gAzxHNcbiIeVC6B0orEmxWQNd2Eq1urTCt1tRX8HyQP ReoQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=8iOXn8/LwJSm6y0EQczbsJ+oKj0PaEIBUJdnvtHMN4w=; b=BY2OYnFrDe76b8N8VTzn3IYW6qT3wq8NzYmq0OhoaWn+OsZmR32JbCMzHcSRuL2CaQ ppn6p3ssUmo+wgOSSHeZDM6lhTz4qF8wLS7d0qMJ60/s5M6jlKH615gYy3/5/YtMEBt2 1uh7u20JZMUhTxIv7tHzu6bol5QDJLrfo9yYMjG4SDcN4WlhDFNcdRjesFcr9cHUMw+u YnjQR25V7RqZ1ojK2vG/Ghg9mYPYBkgVWgtGmJ7vNrmaKkjNezuhtKAyPF+vxfYZrMCV N3WR89rRwTNeKnfLb9inwIZ7c7fggLhNPCUBABdLjpkqqKHb4IOOHSwtvkLSJ35ecoGa 30gQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531K4weAzQb7PZ9EMHZKM+rfE9uyEFx5dc/c1IEqnCNAzuDiRjb1 dKit0ELyigk3gF7i4b2z2Ck= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwMdH8040CPxQR28JaRKEqiU2Ye1EAdvzFLdzA3ze/3LsfB2t64nUp3wXXyTiN3+I3oHiUiSw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:ec0a:: with SMTP id x10mr30250809wrn.130.1591186524906; Wed, 03 Jun 2020 05:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id b14sm2636106wmj.47.2020.06.03.05.15.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Jun 2020 05:15:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::429; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x429.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251799 Archived-At: On 03.06.2020 07:24, Richard Stallman wrote: > Today I came across a message remaining from May 11 and concluded I had > better respond to it. I regret taking so long. > > > > > Right. And I'll posit that including s.el into GNU ELPA, by itself, will > > > > not hurt any of these three goals. > > > > > > It would mess up the naming in GNU Emacs, making two incongruous > > > systems. > > > Not in GNU Emacs, though. > > Yes, in GNU Emacs. If we have s.el in GNU ELPA under current > conditions, that will put the s- namespace of GNU Emacs outside our > control. (Indeed, someone claimed it is already de facto outside our > control.) That "someone" was me as well. > It is a big problem that other people, without even consulting us, can > take major parts of the Emacs Lisp namespace away from us. > > Maybe we can correct this general problem in a general way with a > system of namespaces. I hope so. But denying the problem is not > solving it. I agree it's a problem, but my (and not only mine) point was that adding the package to ELPA won't really change anything in this regard. A namespace system would be a welcome change, of course.