From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Should we restore manually maintained ChangeLogs Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 23:42:33 +0200 Message-ID: <1ceba0e3-b8a7-393d-ce41-213aee11b7f8@yandex.ru> References: <56BE7E37.3090708@cs.ucla.edu> <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <87vb4zb0i4.fsf@gnu.org> <837fheuu6a.fsf@gnu.org> <83twkiteb3.fsf@gnu.org> <83lh5utbxb.fsf@gnu.org> <56DDD02A.20809@cs.ucla.edu> <83fuw2t2ue.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457387019 9779 80.91.229.3 (7 Mar 2016 21:43:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 21:43:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: mthl@gnu.org, johnw@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 07 22:43:29 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ad2w2-0000Av-BF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 22:43:26 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58804 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad2w1-0000Hw-Oj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:43:25 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36123) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad2vK-0007i8-5L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:42:43 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad2vG-0000UZ-Rp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:42:42 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wm0-x22b.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b]:37948) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad2vG-0000UL-Hs; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:42:38 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wm0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id l68so3298181wml.1; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 13:42:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vDZR8FNj5yR1glIznzoltghSAvYJ/wVqCGzDEIPZZ6Y=; b=ktWyPnKn1WSxFoWOrq0vtu+rvPL/FPNQ3lTE/G1RodM2zMwf4dMkCZ5DI18eejnBJL JGAMjJf8/8GErd0oWYqRgDK5rCWOfBGFDcJ+v3YGrHdkA4dRmq3PScT67lX1/PoL/GSU PrvEjApUuDyMgcRbwhFRcsfBa1VjyWHAMK14YFMK+sWJQKdXhxVNR68tgRqMUVAOP4Ko QfQsPJ1DvozPMnoNMdb2vlDrNYm/aExfqTDQvGOGzClvbZxlgboLmfQuhImrCu9eDQcB tMEfRzu5vGrrL5YG9DHhZsNWVF4puzmJlVUkEV6zIuffy5305HAm3uUD/YKMUxj0qcZK 3/9g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vDZR8FNj5yR1glIznzoltghSAvYJ/wVqCGzDEIPZZ6Y=; b=RwasCW+QUhfE5G2FfgzvmcO7kYeHQ7ePejbVr3ucBSCHRiJ8u6f4OJpN2gP9IfTv7o Evn1fvCt2lvaRNoORu7+SYp5KC5G14pDm0BLd1XDBnVEwxP4/89MXfn3ZrujfAOcw5t4 ScwgDlTpNkmk7O7R6/WaEze09JsN10EAM3y+AMIg5rHI4HLjmcY0OjzbyOKgsKl8pJVB HYY3OyDRlP3WZHpVqJIsFS9Df4sUBaVXTK+pmAHzYpcnX7YA/8B8Js2NiNnEgaO3Uhe9 QklCZi81pTx9bn1L3Peiq2Ykc8hCPLlmhWUkhLAeWGvU+Brec1KoCV4CyMlVq9tSFYnz YT+g== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJZ5JUC6nxbb30/zA17ltOPbNUSx5hHGrdr0w/m5Y6kTI8b2r99XtliJc7wzQ19Fw== X-Received: by 10.194.94.138 with SMTP id dc10mr29119482wjb.37.1457386957810; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 13:42:37 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([185.105.175.24]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id gg7sm19906174wjd.10.2016.03.07.13.42.35 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 07 Mar 2016 13:42:36 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.0 In-Reply-To: <83fuw2t2ue.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201087 Archived-At: On 03/07/2016 11:06 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Maintaining ChangeLog files by hand with each commit makes it harder >> to merge changes due to the inevitable collisions with ChangeLog >> files. > > Incorrect! And the current situation creates _more_ collisions, not > less! Only when merging between branches. Other than that, only a select group of people needs to bother: those who make mistakes, and those who feel a general need to clean up. As a relatively careful committer, I've only had to correct the entries a few times, and I've been enjoying the lack of collisions quite a bit. >>> mistakes in the log messages are not corrected >> >> This is a problem regardless of whether ChangeLog files are updated by >> each commit. Under either approach, contributors often make mistakes in >> their ChangeLog entries, and don't bother to fix them because (let's >> face it) ChangeLog entries are low priority. > > But ChangeLog mistakes can be easily fixed. In the current approach, as well. >> We can solve that problem. (It hasn't been high priority to fix.) > > We don't know how, and we don't have anyone who is motivated enough to > do that. And even if and when we do have some solution, it is likely > to be inconvenient and unreliable. I think we should wait and see until the work really transitions back to master. The motivation must rise. > Let other projects invent those schemes and test-drive them. Enough > with these experiments! They draw the last drops of energy from us, > and they avert the few last veteran contributors we have left. Has the current experiment really sucked too much energy from anyone, aside from the implementors? Yes, there is a problem on master, but we're still mostly expected to use, and polish, emacs-25. > That's not a bad thing in itself. The point is, these procedures > work, and all those projects are alive and kicking, and actually make > more frequent releases than we do. For all we know, they might be thriving despite this practice. >>> We have maintained ChangeLog files in the repo for years, and I don't >>> remember this ever being a problem, provided that a proper merge tool >>> (git-merge-changelog for Git) is installed. >> >> I often ran into problems. Yes, git-merge-changelog should reduce the >> number of merge conflicts, but it doesn't eliminate them > > Oh, yes, it does. Not in my experience either. I've still had collisions, and even when git-merge-changelog resolved them, it often put my entry in the middle of the file, whereas I usually needed it to be at the top. Leading to extra manual labor. >> requiring git-merge-changelog means that many contributors would >> have to worry about installing and configuring git-merge-changelog, >> which would be more of a hassle for recruiting contributors. > > It's a 5-sec configuration, let's not make a mountain out of a > molehill. It was longer for me. But either way, it's more hassle for a random contributor than the current system. If it can be fixed, Someone should.