From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ali Bahrami Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Finding the dump (redux) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 09:41:17 -0600 Message-ID: <1bf535b8-ca77-0eb6-9ac3-029b686b3671@emvision.com> References: <5decf0e7-8f26-3fc7-7094-1bfdb211eefc@emvision.com> <83k0p0vjgn.fsf@gnu.org> <0aa226dd-50e3-ec62-e0ac-2b9194c3d90d@emvision.com> <831rb8uiv0.fsf@gnu.org> <87k0p02efn.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <87zgxu7juf.fsf@igel.home> <279d1651-55f7-9cd6-4f6b-7616676beca4@emvision.com> <83tuo2s9g1.fsf@gnu.org> <83mttus5hs.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5280"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.1 Cc: schwab@linux-m68k.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 19 17:42:16 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lYW2R-0001DG-Mm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:42:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51226 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lYW2Q-0002ho-Lb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 11:42:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57044) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lYW1d-0002Ha-AL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 11:41:25 -0400 Original-Received: from gateway.emvision.com ([71.33.253.1]:3329 helo=emvision.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lYW1b-0005bz-Lq; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 11:41:25 -0400 Original-Received: from [198.182.198.2] (moose.emvision.com [198.182.198.2]) by emvision.com (8.15.2+Sun/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 13JFfHHx010497; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 09:41:18 -0600 (MDT) In-Reply-To: <83mttus5hs.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US X-Greylist: inspected by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (emvision.com [192.168.0.2]); Mon, 19 Apr 2021 09:41:19 -0600 (MDT) for IP:'198.182.198.2' DOMAIN:'moose.emvision.com' HELO:'[198.182.198.2]' FROM:'ali_gnu2@emvision.com' RCPT:'' X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (emvision.com [192.168.0.2]); Mon, 19 Apr 2021 09:41:19 -0600 (MDT) Received-SPF: none client-ip=71.33.253.1; envelope-from=ali_gnu2@emvision.com; helo=emvision.com X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.399, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:268175 Archived-At: On 4/19/21 8:39 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Stefan Kangas >> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 08:34:19 -0500 >> Cc: schwab@linux-m68k.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> I would have hoped that we tried to ensure that builds are reproducible. >> IOW, if the source hasn't changed, the fingerprint shouldn't change >> either. > > I don't see what do reproducible builds have to do with this. Ali > wasn't talking about rebuilding without changes. > That's true, but we do value reproducible builds. It's hard to know up front sometimes, what information would be good to share, and what would widen the discussion in an unwanted way. It just hadn't come up yet. When we update our systems, the packaging system only updates the bits that have changed, so reproducible builds mean that less data travels over the wire, and less data has to be put in place on the updated system. The savings are substantial, especially for a package like emacs, where in principle, the bits only change when we update to a new release, once every year or two. I'm not an expert, but I think GNU/Linux installers are doing similar things, for the same reasons. Distros don't want the bits to change unless the source does. It would also really help with that manifest problem. Perhaps it is "paradise lost", but "paradise lost on source change" would be a big upgrade. - Ali