From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juergen Fenn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Newbie Info Pages Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2024 16:46:42 +0200 Message-ID: <1b35a3ef-85d7-47f7-aff1-f038274cbccf@gmx.net> References: <87wmjg4tkq.fsf@posteo.net> <391666A2-D4BA-4DFE-9FF6-CAA48797EC97@summerstar.me> <87seu44r6o.fsf@posteo.net> <07DFC42A-87BE-43BC-B646-2F7F711E2D84@summerstar.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19991"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Summer Emacs , Philip Kaludercic , eliz@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 13 16:47:11 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sp7Zn-00056V-6l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2024 16:47:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sp7Ze-0000vb-C4; Fri, 13 Sep 2024 10:47:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sp7Za-0000og-3j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Sep 2024 10:46:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sp7ZX-0004a6-6T; Fri, 13 Sep 2024 10:46:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.net; s=s31663417; t=1726238805; x=1726843605; i=jfenn@gmx.net; bh=toEShi6prb+n1HYeGiCxBAQfVpB/f9EkJ3BZVeFPykg=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc: References:From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=eHJLwH464fg9G7ph5Rhq+TxSo2s4rqdemucciwPirDs0H9T6lnQbJ3vmIVSPi3pJ TZlGnLR44tabIJuCR7XMXoU2AbIJj07AMaoKszXaDJYHYjzW7yJjsOOgvvf0jhJ5G FTIKksBURRLQYKXmirZyBHDvca6p/delUXAcTKz8nyitXAn46TvCkasH/oti5APsn VwehsnYH/DzGS773JzmQWXDskgx2X4+UN9wFyoEUgkC6X2+/K3GqHHP029QV9r0BL opW2HFQu0ghX9YIl/NMHMFJaK3TXTgUtRQ92gcaUSjWWXGM11g8i2ZwYSKmQ4EKlO yiGct9YDequHwV60Bw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Original-Received: from [192.168.178.22] ([91.17.162.130]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M7sDg-1su3Vv1Gio-00ChD3; Fri, 13 Sep 2024 16:46:45 +0200 Content-Language: de-DE In-Reply-To: <07DFC42A-87BE-43BC-B646-2F7F711E2D84@summerstar.me> X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:M/MpAILMgfzEJ/JfHYflH8lHYQhV2Fjsbpz3RBatKuxzHpnoeNk 3Bwo3UcdqbY+6AIRVQPsJby1IhiPRNOSg7fJkqjA8pAfeYvpNCx+sa8ZKKjOytxZdvgpX7x IFARCP8bdSGkrluL5KqxViXERWqpynsHVvS3xCLFTqCSoA6bcujj/ujQPpenZJtyrS1BqoM LWJfOKvAJUoo6ypWRDoYA== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:vHhu7EaITKk=;c99O/ZU/msHQhXJZzqjcmH0wxM+ 3bIvPbTIb9d/TjkEYDQAlMCejffswlAsbEVajQIAoIHqFbKbmJaN/vNLjeUo1aIZgLRYInB7E muPHi+aPjzC29C/6j0CvNWzxb4JSq//xjJjR5RevUuCZI9jHP5mGuLIy+4dVb5lK8XQk1DBOk OngQe0cXDTxDWHPUkcFRe1EvN9jdpVxLPGWJcqwdJ3d06FA8/wKFXp2BYS7+yZH1yRy6QkdFg 2OA/lGhx8SyhSMu7wu/EM5uDyE6NsjbBUO2gS6XKkLAXwFf1Y+9XEfMqfCMKhHIDK5DHbjsta w8FuipSD7pCjTRLC/Hnbp2Ijc8UoBZxw/30jXfl6DmS2nzmYAlDU9rXLn2XYc4g/HQAZ9RUnW vKjVw4Z8c9xbOs4dOqsyEHN9ao1J6B6A3n9X39C4fRJSgYA/yhh4KIBzPAktxvGDyW8shMMII Cz1vOo+F7QtaJEk46cJSA0Zo/DOTm0+GSvUbfyDDoggxAP3FjaDiF2W7wNA9Ubns2R4czDyKu 5u17phgVz8Q8Bt/Ym/sdY5iQExDLaPFnBwwgHQLkhuD4OqQq0L4vQx5YLgUMbT0cZQoeDb6Yp A+C/ahywtzZVLrOaBk54TOTkXeW6U/pjITwFVe8Nw7xlRQUQzwXF8fP+I802cLSNj5UgIfHDW 6ODWQREehVL0dYWeSmUBdUFfJx13MXf1jwvxYyt+KvG9onMlF0NGEzc50hdEJrks8t0qge+xq E73QI88uNGoMXaNA2w0RlGfaGHa8gRVYG3Onlngp3j9PqgOqYo0VuS5dUv09MWnwJ+EQWm9n Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.18; envelope-from=jfenn@gmx.net; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:323598 Archived-At: Am 13.09.24 um 09:39 Uhr schrieb Summer Emacs: > > Well, since I keep hearing =E2=80=9CEmacs is for everyone=E2=80=9D and = =E2=80=9CFree software is > for everyone=E2=80=9D, I=E2=80=99m imagining some of my friends: people = who use their > phones and iPads, Tik Tok, iMessage, WhatsApp, and who don=E2=80=99t eve= r look > at a computer unless they have to at work or in class. People like me > who didn=E2=80=99t know how to do much of anything other than open a fil= e, write > in it, click a few buttons, and send it off in an Email. Those people. > Regular people. People who don=E2=80=99t know what a function or a varia= ble is. > People who don=E2=80=99t know what a computer language is and think that= your > use of Emacs makes you a genius. My people. =3D) You know, =E2=80=9CEver= yone=E2=80=9D > that=E2=80=99s left =C2=A0outside of the community. =3D) Well, I taught people like your friends for some ten years how to use computers. This worked out well because I am not a developer myself, but I also struggle to get going with operating systems and applications. You can explain to a newbie how to install, start, and work with Emacs. But what you probably can't do is to convince someone who prefers mobile apps to desktop systems that it would be better for him to use the latter. Emacs and other fine pieces of software are not for people that do not find its advantages to be obvious for all the world to see. When I discovered Emacs sometime around 2000, it was love at first sight. :) So, an introduction to Emacs and Emacs Lisp for the 21st century would not mind to address the vast majority of mobile app users and preach them to show repentance and to finally join the church of Emacs. Rather, it would avoid the Emacs-specific vocabulary no one outside our own bubble understands right away. It would use plain words that anyone who knows how to use a computer understands anyway. And it would explain some differences between platforms, such as what is Meta key on the Mac. This isn't much, but it is probably where most new users fail. YMMV. If time permits, I could provide such an introduction for new Emacs users on the Mac. Regards, J=C3=BCrgen.