From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PL support Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 02:03:58 +0300 Message-ID: <1b1b1138-82da-d37f-806e-cd478ef12756@yandex.ru> References: <9mmFgzvrBwjt_n_VJyaJdXINraNi5HsGpwq-0MLeKiJA7kG2BQA4uywrzjyz7lpRS0OZDpjEi8lspOKYUA7P_QsODsDew_8nbH960G55fmY=@protonmail.com> <2e4e8ce9-d857-f3e3-31cf-a40dee67bd25@yandex.ru> <83y2q1dsvh.fsf@gnu.org> <2468efa6-7dbd-8634-44cc-586bb6985f49@yandex.ru> <83pnbddrfd.fsf@gnu.org> <83k11ldpxs.fsf@gnu.org> <83imh5dnun.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7wpdms7.fsf@gnu.org> <88adcf52-7310-6d48-ab31-5d427deaa89d@yandex.ru> <65bfd7bb-34e5-53ca-a7c1-dfd0d22eeb9d@yandex.ru> <2827d7f3-6827-d580-7fe5-f3c24aae0029@yandex.ru> <83mu6ebjb7.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="104093"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, joaotavora@gmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 12 01:04:41 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jYHTU-000Qx6-Pf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 12 May 2020 01:04:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36900 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYHTT-0008OP-Pj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 19:04:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54578) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYHSu-0007rz-RM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 19:04:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x432.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::432]:36033) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYHSt-0003FN-M9; Mon, 11 May 2020 19:04:04 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x432.google.com with SMTP id y16so5867072wrs.3; Mon, 11 May 2020 16:04:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XW3PTHgiKeSXpbp6wXcV8QKACwd3Mnme9VpUw3gXkZs=; b=dXdVWEHF8MWfe7EUFejPCUURwE3Zt/QWqN/bQFQvq50bdnLpVtvw6iglIsQ+Vp8iyw Ikl/v/1sMYrF+nXYnRDz7WiMxhU2es/ZRe/gmX6GNNZiFKE608gVZuaMkVlV/wRL6ChU gWJrsbz7KTSibFfpiNf5fX1Y+fS9Sl4VC2yEN32FKuhK9uqaPXkdiaumA0q/PzVzDnWm okDw4zoY5WnkAmDKXl9Uup6Ks5RjRyEQ1jAh5DUqu0YTN1Ak957CDxY8uV+ruWreQ1WI TKoKyVKw+pJdl8ZMfNLioD6EoQEMUmygzOD+prmZPwVC6Ww0del1u18GspO6KHdnDOwL lPUg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XW3PTHgiKeSXpbp6wXcV8QKACwd3Mnme9VpUw3gXkZs=; b=n59vegPbStlgyCdiXRuoO8ojXe49fwWv795Wp8LvHQWZFsBRn3EXsnHbnFlj3d5haP G+UxF1J76NU65TnB9+Af+ddbfqVwPiKZxg++b0TSZaUdhoXgBjIe94ioY2RO+l2OAPbM L0wCgXyG6FqLv+LBQO/2PJDvA8nFppq+SqaFEGywDb2hSG5gWKmjPcpJshFrDPxAI3CH vsPMMoAxr+FR9ib32T7ds1u4xc2iraSeaqLek9fgZre6i3CwroFQSHvj00+3uI79OaUh YDfCGrZbUW4BOBXY2NmxP2liIiiyGH5sEzOdNFT/UsECEHFPHuuBcU/77h9oT9N3XFWO vrrQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Pub4Xag2mO0chXNDR+rxA1j34PdI5Zq5STirrhAupNZhsXy4C/Je tmMMhTg5hj2n6jbv9zC8oOnxkys2 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKd8pCFO6lJX4bKcNpJJv8tfKS4QRRf6sA6Sa+HSIko/ndP60Vp+qtrKloe5y6Zf5n3R6e8QQ== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6087:: with SMTP id w7mr13061293wrt.158.1589238241061; Mon, 11 May 2020 16:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id r3sm5544467wmh.48.2020.05.11.16.03.59 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 11 May 2020 16:04:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83mu6ebjb7.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::432; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x432.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249905 Archived-At: On 11.05.2020 18:08, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> The frequent approach in big projects is "forwarding" bug reports to >> people responsible for respective piece of code. > > Most of the code in Emacs doesn't have an "owner", so this cannot work > for us. Heck, we don't even have appointed few who'd triage every > report quickly and efficiently (which would be one way of preventing > too many people from reading too many email messages). These are the main reasons why I'm wary of adding more packages to Emacs core without solid justification. Having more core developers should be a plus for sure, but the extra cognitive load for everyone else seems unavoidable either way. > In general, methods that work well in small projects don't scale when > you try bringing them to Emacs, both because Emacs is much larger (not > just in code size, but also in the number of widely different > expertise domains on which it is based and without understanding which > you cannot efficiently maintain the relevant parts of the code), and > because the number of people who actively track the bug list is so > small. The methods I was referring to are used for big projects (e.g. Mozilla Firefox), as well as commercial projects of varied size with enough manpower to do the triage work. Emacs, on the other hand, uses a "small project" workflow despite being, let's say, medium-size. And changing the workflows seems to be not in the cards right now. So it seems to me that the logical thing would be to try to slim it down where feasible rather than simply keep growing. >> Then not everybody has to be subscribed to all bug reports. >> >> Splitting big subprojects (like Gnus) to separate mailboxes could help >> as well, though. > > It is not easy to track issues for a large project such as ours, > that's true. But let's please not represent the situation as a total > catastrophe: debbugs does have keywords and sub-projects, and we have > the debbugs package that allows to use those to read only those > reports in which you are interested. Some of us do use that package. I suppose it would help if somebody actually used the keywords/sub-projects to forward bugs to other people.