From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Mendler Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stepping Back: A Wealth Of Completion systems Re: [ELPA] New package: vertico Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2021 22:03:10 +0200 Message-ID: <1a701fa9-52e9-df8c-562a-6e793e2347a1@daniel-mendler.de> References: <9c9af088-580f-9fb1-4d79-237a74ce605c@inventati.org> <874kgkxxs0.fsf@posteo.net> <3ec7e2e58a100426a22e@heytings.org> <877dleb2px.fsf@posteo.net> <87blaq5amw.fsf@posteo.net> <87o8eplxgt.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23186"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 07 22:16:47 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lUEbW-0005uf-JP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 22:16:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51506 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUEbV-0006QB-Jq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 16:16:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53022) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUEOW-0002kh-Pz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 16:03:20 -0400 Original-Received: from server.qxqx.de ([2a01:4f8:121:346::180]:33989 helo=mail.qxqx.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUEOR-0000qr-Ec for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 16:03:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=qxqx.de; s=mail1392553390; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To: MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=zmLlpa0HPaOsxciI5Wc54rqmESNrMkBOxiW1a2F1g2A=; b=CV9ngpjzZU61DTVusNJkxkPehO TSi/LHwdIrKBIxch6PHID1RPvriXicOHrhEQXM0nCAIgew+Hwk7t95FuT4iaW0qWA9APXi+Z8YQsZ e2NwgIfDNOdyoQCj/d1g1Bqmg+ifDYmOBEDI81lzz20AVqS4v6TKcvm8F9sq4fA3WK98=; In-Reply-To: <87o8eplxgt.fsf@posteo.net> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f8:121:346::180; envelope-from=mail@daniel-mendler.de; helo=mail.qxqx.de X-Spam_score_int: -41 X-Spam_score: -4.2 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:267570 Archived-At: On 4/7/21 9:13 PM, Philip Kaludercic wrote: > I'm still thinking about all of this, and have to find the time to > implement a prototype. It might make sense to have a similar approach to > completing-read, where a variable like completing-read-function can > change everything. > > A tree-like visualisation would probably make more sense, as long as it > can be manipulated using the keyboard. I mentioned org-mode thinking of > the org-cycle command, and how it allows you to hide and show subtrees. I am looking forward to seeing a prototype! > I use the default completion system, so for me it is not about filtering > a data set but expanding a string. Just to reiterate, this is exactly > the point I am bringing this up. Well, but what does this mean in the context of opening a file? I guess, you are not interested in the string (the file name) alone but in the end you want to select a file? > Well FWIW I'm not. I used Ivy for a long while, but ultimately gave it > up. There has been a lot of talk about {Selectrum,Embark,Orderless,...} > recently but I am not convinced that the approach these packages take > are on the right level. The only way to find out is to try something > else on the level I suspect there might be more potential for a better > solution. Why? I would love to hear a more detailed criticism since I am involved with those packages. You are again a bit vague. These packages just try to work with what we have API-wise from the side of Emacs. But regarding the presentation of the completion results, the views of the authors of the respective packages you mention vary. Omar, the author of Embark and Orderless, has written four completion UIs which are mostly derived from default completion, Clemens has Selectrum, I have recently made Vertico. But all these packages somehow cooperate despite the different preferences. Daniel