From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Merging Finder into package mechanism Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:29:07 -0700 Message-ID: <1DFC8CFFD80647C086EAC377F7AAA837@us.oracle.com> References: <87hbie8ppy.fsf@stupidchicken.com><41A82A0C268E42CA838BB6AF4C778B20@us.oracle.com> <87eib72orn.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1288564286 25554 80.91.229.12 (31 Oct 2010 22:31:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 22:31:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Chong Yidong'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 31 23:31:16 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PCgQl-0005v7-B4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 23:31:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55161 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PCgQk-000072-8w for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 18:31:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=60169 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PCgQc-00005K-S8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 18:31:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PCgQb-0000BK-F7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 18:31:06 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:37820) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PCgQb-0000Al-A2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 18:31:05 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o9VMUxC0019000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 31 Oct 2010 22:31:00 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o9V5oqPo021848; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 22:30:58 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt010.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 737934081288564146; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:29:06 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.217.133) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 31 Oct 2010 15:29:06 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87eib72orn.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Thread-Index: Act5MOW9spTNh/Z9Rauc93q53E3VvQADx3pQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:132225 Archived-At: > Which package is this? It doesn't matter. It's not my library, if that's what you're worried about. It uses `finder-package-info' only in this way: (cadr (assoc (format "%s.el" (symbol-name feature)) finder-package-info)) That's all. So please say how to do the equivalent using package.el or whatever. That should be simple since you say the same info is still available (somewhere). > > If you truly "merged" those two variables, why couldn't you provide > > compatibility - via defalias or something? > > Preferably not. If almost no one is using the old data, it's > better to make a clean break than to lug around two copies of > the same data. Since when does `def(var)alias' make a copy? I didn't say anything about creating copies. In any case, where is the remaining copy of the data that you still lug around? What guidance do you provide to update code that uses `finder-package-info' so that it can DTRT after Emacs 23? If the data is still available then it should be simple to update the code above for Emacs 24+. Please indicate how. And how do you know that "almost no one is using the old data"? Did you survey/poll/search or just divine this? You incorrectly assumed/claimed that "third-party code is unlikely to make use of it." Now you suppose that _almost_ no one is using it. Based on what? I came across one library that uses it, just by accident. Googling indicates others, including `ee-finder.el' by Juri, which does this: (mapcar (lambda (package) (mapcar (lambda (field-name) (cond ((eq field-name 'file) (nth 0 package)) ((eq field-name 'synopsis) (nth 1 package)) ((eq field-name 'keywords) (nth 2 package)))) field-names)) finder-package-info) And a post from Tim Cross entitled "Warning regarding current emacs 24" says that Emacsspeak needs `finder-package-info' and that your change "breaks emacspeak-finder.el, which in turn breaks the emacspeak config step." http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~priestdo/emacspeak/2010/msg00149.html No doubt all such 3rd-party coders can eventually make adjustments for your "clean break". But please document what's involved so they know what to do and can begin to do it. > > Also, I do not, in any case, see any `package--builtins-base' > > in Emacs 24. > > The system has been tweaked a couple of times since I posted > that. Surely some person(s) did the tweaking, and so should update NEWS accordingly. So far, we have user-visible changes with no explanation in the user-visible NEWS. > I'll add a placeholder NEWS entry as a reminder, but > there will likely be more changes before Emacs 24 is released. Please keep NEWS updated correctly wrt this breakage. NEWS is for users. If you can update change logs for developers then you can also update NEWS for users. You don't use "placeholders" in change logs, do you?