From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Aidan Kehoe Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Inadequate documentation of silly characters on screen. Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:21:08 +0000 Message-ID: <19205.35988.991733.556115@parhasard.net> References: <20091118191258.GA2676@muc.de> <20091119082040.GA1720@muc.de> <874ooq8xay.fsf@wanchan.jasonrumney.net> <20091119141852.GC1720@muc.de> <20091119155848.GB1314@muc.de> <19205.30349.786007.611623@parhasard.net> <20091119172934.GD1314@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1258654899 25156 80.91.229.12 (19 Nov 2009 18:21:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:21:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Jason Rumney , Andreas Schwab , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 19 19:21:31 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NBBdH-0006wD-S1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:21:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48494 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NBBdH-0007Z8-6n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:21:27 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NBBd8-0007XQ-Py for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:21:18 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NBBd3-0007Wc-Uj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:21:18 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=38397 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NBBd3-0007WT-Py for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:21:13 -0500 Original-Received: from daedalus.ipv4.asclepian.ie ([213.133.100.226]:56063 helo=daedalus.asclepian.ie) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NBBd0-0005Gi-CN; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:21:10 -0500 Original-Received: by daedalus.asclepian.ie (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 5C3B9B854; Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:21:09 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <20091119172934.GD1314@muc.de> X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12 under 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" dd29ed9c6962+ XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-freebsd7.2) X-Echelon-distraction: Pathfinders ISAF SALDV IRIDF COS CISD X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:117276 Archived-At: Ar an nao=C3=BA l=C3=A1 d=C3=A9ag de m=C3=AD na Samhain, scr=C3=ADobh Al= an Mackenzie:=20 > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 04:47:09PM +0000, Aidan Kehoe wrote: >=20 > > Ar an nao=C3=BA l=C3=A1 d=C3=A9ag de m=C3=AD na Samhain, scr=C3=ADo= bh Alan Mackenzie:=20 >=20 > > > Hi, Stefan, >=20 > > > [...] I really don't want to have to think about the difference > > > between "chars" and "bytes" when I'm hacking lisp. If I do, then = the > > > abstraction "string" is broken. >=20 > > For some context on this, that=E2=80=99s how it works in XEmacs; we=E2= =80=99ve > > never had problems with it, we seem to avoid an entire class of > > programming errors that GNU Emacs developers deal with on a regular > > basis. >=20 > In XEmacs, characters and integers are distinct types. That causes > extra work having to convert between them, both mentally and in writin= g > code.=20 Certainly--that=E2=80=99s orthogonal to the issue at hand, though, it inv= olves some of the same things but is distinct. XEmacs could have implemented the unibyte-string/multibyte-string Lisp distinction and kept the type distinction between characters and integers; we didn=E2=80=99t, though. (= Or maybe it was just that the Mule version that we based our code on didn=E2=80=99t h= ave it.) > It is not that the GNU Emacs way is wrong, it just has a bug at > the moment. As far as I can see it=E2=80=99s an old design decision.=20 --=20 =E2=80=9CApart from the nine-banded armadillo, man is the only natural ho= st of Mycobacterium leprae, although it can be grown in the footpads of mice.=E2= =80=9D -- Kumar & Clark, Clinical Medicine, summarising improbable leprosy res= earch