From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Scrollbar bug on OS X Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:31:10 +0100 Message-ID: <18753a487a2e34d0f0b1901870fa24a2@gmail.com> References: <87vf70ausz.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> <5b72982df8c370d3a58358de397046c8@gmail.com> <86583cd4c0fa9cf9e4a562be66bb3a55@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1112960827 20654 80.91.229.2 (8 Apr 2005 11:47:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:47:07 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 08 13:47:04 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DJrwb-0006uN-H9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:46:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DJrW6-0001nx-BH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 07:19:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DJrTz-0000oK-TA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 07:17:04 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DJrTt-0000l7-OZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 07:16:59 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DJrTr-0000g4-1e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 07:16:55 -0400 Original-Received: from [64.233.184.207] (helo=wproxy.gmail.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DJriX-00068Y-Ce for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 07:32:05 -0400 Original-Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 50so973701wri for ; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 04:31:12 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=g7QMRZgEjTHsJqjbCgcGr13NCmxz9AekxjRKlIKpK39cPxbBLv0TIJiEb0GDo1+OCIM5LW3TInu86Ezpmip2IuAkJjmH7CcvwaAE+XTsH19IzOibODdBcLvcLUp9/45gFx6UsGpZyvh8yeZbI4ZlVId97z/LfsBMZMoLrWvW6FA= Original-Received: by 10.54.71.15 with SMTP id t15mr1067917wra; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 04:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from ?129.215.110.120? ([129.215.110.120]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 66sm936655wra.2005.04.08.04.31.11; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 04:31:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Original-To: Miles Bader , snogglethorpe@gmail.com, LENNART BORGMAN X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:35755 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:35755 On 8 Apr 2005, at 03:05, Miles Bader wrote: >> Instead, suffice it to say that it should be up to >> the UI layer to implement the exact behavior. > > The UI layer should be able to specify defaults; the final decision > should be up to the user. Either the user choses an environment, i.e. operating system, that specifies these defaults, or he gets more fine-grained control over the interface. That's all fine - like I said in my earlier message: it shouldn't be up to the application. For that reason stuff like wxWidgets has architectural advantages over the non-native widgets used by GTK. Non-native UI usually doesn't feel as nice and comfortable. To give a practical example, Java Swing applications always feel clunky and somehow "not right" on the Mac. (But then again, I concede that Mac users tend to me more picky about UI than your average GNU/Linux or Windows user.)